1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,720 Andy Swallow, born in 1960, Stratford - East London. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,960 Had no option but to be a West Ham fan. 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,120 You was a West Ham fan. 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,440 It was the East End thing, you know what I mean? 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,560 The ICF was pretty unique. 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,520 We are talking about one of the most important firms in England. 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,240 Andy had that kind of general mentality, 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,520 like a lot of the top boys do, every firm needs its generals. 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,240 We don't care what the government thinks about us. 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,040 We was driving through, 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,040 town to town, picking up a few goods. 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,520 But we didn't fancy it, and as we was walking out, 15 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:47,720 we was arrested. 16 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,280 Danny was in the prison and I was in the tower. 17 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:52,960 Roll on to the acid house scene. 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,720 We're going to set up a radio station, 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,040 and that's when it started, 24 hour, Centreforce began. 20 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,920 We were the first 24 hour house music station. 21 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,560 What about making a record? We could do this. 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,480 We went off to a studio, and we made a record. 23 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,960 I had Craig David, I'd put out Ms. Dynamite, Artful Dodger. 24 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,360 It was only inevitable, even though decades later 25 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:13,360 that we came back. 26 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,680 This is everybody's story, this is my story, 27 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,400 it's Danny's story and Centreforce is the family. 28 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,400 Yeah. Nobody wanted them to succeed, 29 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,040 there was nobody giving them handouts. 30 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,040 There was nobody helping them along their way. 31 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,280 There's only one real, true underdog... 32 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,920 If you grow up kind of working class, tenement, council house 33 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,880 in the '60s or '70s, there's not really a lot going for you, 34 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,520 even more so in London than in Edinburgh. 35 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,840 You're in a place where there's a lot of poverty, 36 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,240 but amidst plenty. 37 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,320 You can look basically around the corner 38 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,960 and see there's all this stuff around, 39 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,160 there's all this money, you're in kind of a low status, 40 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:07,640 low paid employment. 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,120 So I think there's a culture. 42 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,920 The whole dockland culture is about chorie. 43 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,800 It's about, if we can't make it, we take it type of thing 44 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,680 and the idea that nicking something from your employer, 45 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,920 you know, the docks or wherever it is, 46 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,600 it's not really theft, it's a kind of tax 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,480 a redistribution of wealth, 48 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,680 a justified redistribution of wealth. 49 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,080 I think that kind of hustling culture permeates dock areas, 50 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,160 it permeates all working class culture. 51 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,440 Andy's from this area, from across the road there basically 52 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,840 and worked in that market over there. 53 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,480 And you look even now, everything has changed in this area, 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:53,920 the ethnicity's changed 55 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,720 but the hustle and bustle is just the very same, 56 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,040 there's no way you can be different, 57 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,600 you're shaped by the environment you live in 58 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,280 and there is no way anybody can grow up 59 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,480 differently from that environment basically, 60 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,480 that makes you the person that you are. 61 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,160 No fencing here, this was where we used to put all the barrows. 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,840 So, from 7, 8, 9 years old, we've come around here 63 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,880 through the, you can still see the doors 64 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,800 even though the doors weren't there, but it's a path down. 65 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,360 We used to pull the barrows out here into the market, 66 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,360 around about 6-7 in the morning, and then we'd pull 'em 67 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,880 5-6 o'clock after the game back into there. 68 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,240 And it's funny enough, I just looked through there 69 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:36,720 and there's still barrows. 70 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,920 I lived here literally Waghorn Road, and used to cut through, 71 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,040 my little cut through to my school was there. 72 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,320 And this is where I spent my life as my first job was a barrow boy, 73 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,200 pulling out barrows from this actual place, 74 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,800 which is quite amazing, really. 75 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,640 My mum, bless us, you know my dad left when I was 8, 76 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,040 so my family behind there, they were all fruit andamp; veg 77 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,440 and then my cousin and that, they were broken biscuits. 78 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,400 And then on the corner shop, Mr. Candies or Candies, 79 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,720 whichever one most I say, possibly the other. 80 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,520 We were broken biscuits, sweets, 81 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,480 and my mum used to box the sweets for Appleton's. 82 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,720 And this is where I started my trade of... 83 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:20,480 I was doing fruit andamp; veg and then I ended up 84 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,520 working on the food stall, cheap food, 85 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:23,760 cheap andamp; nice - as the price 86 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:26,080 'Don't walk past these, walk past your own mother.' 87 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,080 I ended up doing market trading. 88 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,160 When I left school, I ended up... 89 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,920 I was a trainee accountant, 90 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,440 but later years I was a market trader. 91 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,720 And then from that, I was doing T-shirts. 92 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,840 I was doing the printed T-shirts at football. 93 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:40,400 I did the Inter City ones. 94 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,280 So, sort of like, from that, 95 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,760 you was always ducking and diving, hustling. 96 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,440 If you look at Dickens who kind of wrote about the East End 97 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,520 and his characters are based in the East End. 98 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,320 Whether Dickens actually knew an Oliver Twist 99 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,720 or a Fagin or an Artful Dodger or a Bill Sykes 100 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,480 is kind of beside the point in some ways 101 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,960 because they are archetypes and they are recognisable 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,680 to a greater or lesser extent, 103 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,400 not just in every community, but in every one of us. 104 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,360 Maybe Andy has a bit of all these characters in him. 105 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,920 You can have the sticky fingers of the Artful Dodger, 106 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,920 the organisational skills of Fagin, 107 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,920 the aggro of Bill Sykes and maybe even that plaintive, 108 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:33,640 romantic kind of urge of the Oliver Twist character himself. 109 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,120 I moved here when I was round about 18 months, two years old. 110 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,280 This is 30 Waghorn Road. This is my home. 111 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:43,760 I spent it here until I was nearly 17. 112 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:46,200 My mates were here, this is where I always say that 113 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,120 the Inter City Firm sort of was born out of, 114 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,840 and the original Essex East London Firm, 115 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,720 we all lived, we all stayed in here. 116 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,400 My sister was born here. 117 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,160 She was eight years younger than me, Mandy. 118 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,760 Me, my mum, and my sister lived here. 119 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:01,320 Don't know if you remember back in the days 120 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,280 that you always was in the kitchen or in the smaller room. 121 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,200 That front room there was the sweet shop. 122 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:07,760 That's where all the sweets were made. 123 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:10,280 Later on, down the line, my mum didn't... it was our posh room. 124 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,400 You had your blue carpet where I'd laugh, 125 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,960 and the back room was where we sat, 126 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,680 and we all had food and watched telly. 127 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,640 I remember when the first colour telly was delivered around '71. 128 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,800 This was where I was born and brought up till '76. 129 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,440 Yeah. Fond memories. 130 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,920 It's really weird. It seems so small. 131 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,160 From when I was here, it seemed so big. 132 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:31,440 This was a cricket pitch. Yeah. 133 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,400 Yeah. Good memories. Good memories. 134 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,320 Even though I think things have changed. Yeah. 135 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,600 Good memories. Yeah, I'm glad we came here. 136 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,280 My name's Gardner. Bill Gardner. 137 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,080 Cass Pennant. 138 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,280 Carlton Leach. 139 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,280 I first started going to West Ham in 19... 140 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,880 the last two games of the 1957-58 season. 141 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,440 I went with my dad who was a Spurs fan. 142 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,440 He used to take me to Spurs one week, and West Ham another 143 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,280 for a while and then I drifted off and done my own thing. 144 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,760 First game at West Ham, I was eight years old. 145 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:35,160 The year the World Cup winners, Hurst, Moore, Peters, 146 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,440 just magical years once you've gone to your first ground. 147 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,880 For me, you know, I've got a different background. 148 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,880 I was a Dr Barnardo's kid from Barkingside 149 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,840 but ended up on the other side. 150 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,560 So going to West Ham and the only colour that mattered 151 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,800 was claret and blue, you know what I mean? 152 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,560 I was always going to come back to West Ham. 153 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,360 West Ham was my home, more than my home was. 154 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,680 I was born five minutes from where we are now, 155 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:01,840 East End Maternity. 156 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,320 So, I'm on my own stomping ground. 157 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,760 What made me decide to go, was my dad was born in Dagenham, 158 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,880 West Ham fan and being on his shoulders in 1964 159 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,880 when we won the FA Cup and the bus going past 160 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,080 and the wooden rattle with the scarf 161 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,160 and I drove him insane in 1965, 162 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,120 'Dad, dad, dad, I wanna go West Ham, I wanna go West Ham!' 163 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,320 And I remember going to the old fruit and veg shop 164 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,080 getting a wooden crate and then we walk in 165 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,760 the whole length of Green Street up to Upton Park, 166 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,880 he'd slip me in through the turnstiles, 167 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,200 give the geezer a drink 168 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,720 or whatever, two bob or whatever it was in them days 169 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,760 and him putting me down the front of the west side 170 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,040 standing on the box. 171 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,320 So, 1965, I was six years old, 172 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,920 and it was in me from that day on. 173 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:51,720 I lived in Upton Park. 174 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,720 A stone's throw from West Ham football ground, 175 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,760 had no option but to be a West Ham fan. 176 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,760 You was a West Ham fan. 177 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,480 So, I was brought up in the area. 178 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,280 If you said to me, your first memories of West Ham, 179 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,480 it's the brick wall at the North bank. 180 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:07,520 Because I come up the stairs at the brick wall 181 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,040 and I used to sit on that brick... 182 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,120 I used to balance on the wall and then I got, 183 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,600 from about 9-10 184 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,320 and then for me the biggest memory 185 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,440 is doing the Knees Up Mother Brown 186 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:20,880 in the middle of the North bank 187 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,600 and ending up behind the goal 188 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:25,600 and they'd all back up again, they'd all surge up, 189 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:29,880 and the old songs of, they weren't really football songs, 190 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,600 Maybe It's Because I'm A Londoner, Knees Up Mother Brown, 191 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:34,120 Drove A Wheelbarrow, 192 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,440 they're all traditional cockney songs 193 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,800 and you took that with you wherever you went. 194 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,680 And you know, when I talk about football, 195 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,760 my smells of football are totally different. 196 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,080 Do you know what I smell? 197 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,120 I smell standing on Mile End station at 14:15 198 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,880 and the smell of the underground train coming in 199 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,560 that you could never smell anything like. 200 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,600 It's like burning rubber, wind of the old Metropolitan Line 201 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,560 coming through that used to whistle through 202 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:02,880 before the train came in. 203 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,400 I remember that smell more than... 204 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:06,680 probably anything else at football. 205 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,560 If you said to me, football, Mile End station, 206 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,080 500 of you and that smell of that train, 207 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,280 and trying to get those black knob things off. 208 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,200 Tried to smuggle them but just couldn't get them. 209 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,200 My mates used to come out and go, you want one of them? 210 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:22,640 I used to swing on 'em. 211 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,120 But yeah, and being... 212 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:27,760 wanting to be a part of it. 213 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,040 Wanting to be part of that culture. 214 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,080 It was always going to be West Ham for me. 215 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,680 The people, I loved the people and I still do now. 216 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,360 Real people like these two here, real people. 217 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,400 Everything about West Ham was different. 218 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,440 Football, when you're working class and it was Great Britain 219 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,720 then before it was UK so it's a different nation, 220 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:53,800 you know what I mean? 221 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,200 And West Ham was different to all the others. 222 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,320 Fans were different, the ground, everything about West Ham, 223 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,360 I felt like I was stepping in a new world where basically 224 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,440 everyone was different instead of just me. 225 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,120 You know what I mean? I can't explain it. 226 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,160 You've got to look at the times. 227 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,680 We was kicking off when we was 13, 14. 228 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,800 It was skinhead boot boy era. 229 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,920 We wear boots and braces to school back then, 230 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,160 but we've known each other since we're 14. 231 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,040 And then Bill, I've come across in '72 232 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,720 and the kind of older guy took me under his wing. 233 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,320 I was abused as a kid, and I left home when I was 14 234 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,960 and lived in a church, in a graveyard, 235 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,680 and I used to love football. 236 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:41,800 My dad used to love football. 237 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,800 He played for London Schoolboys when he was a kid, 238 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,160 and he knew loads of people that played for Tottenham, 239 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,720 that's why he used to take me there. 240 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,600 I was looking for a family, 241 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:53,080 I was looking for people that I can look after. 242 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,680 That's how I would describe it. 243 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,640 I dunno how it sounds to anyone listening, 244 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,240 but I took myself as I've never had nothing. 245 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,880 I would never have nothing, 246 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,280 but I want to give something, and that was loyalty. 247 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,440 So, I wanted to give loyalty to the people that stood by me. 248 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,800 And I think that there's not a man on this planet 249 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,280 that can say I haven't done that. 250 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,760 If Bill, I say Bill because he's one of the most well-known, 251 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,680 if he said we was doing this, we was doing that. 252 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,840 But by the time we got to sort of 18, 253 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,240 we was doing our own thing and I think Bill 254 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,560 and all of them were quite confident in... 255 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,360 we was quite good at doing what we was doing, 256 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,560 if that makes sense. 257 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:40,160 So... But if we got a message that you ain't going there, 258 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,960 we weren't going there. That was a fact. 259 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,440 But we started to push boundaries and do it our own way. 260 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:49,760 I went to my first away game when I was 11. 261 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,200 I travelled the country. 262 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,080 Some of my friends are still friends and still talk to now. 263 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,560 Moose. I've known him since I was 9. 264 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,480 Grant Fleming, I've known Grant since I was 15. 265 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,040 Grant Fleming was a very good friend of mine. 266 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,840 Very, very clever person. 267 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,560 I'm actually going to just sum him up as I would sum it. 268 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,720 He's strange in a nice way. 269 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:13,280 He's the one that's travelled the world. 270 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,280 He's the one that's been up and took pictures. 271 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,600 He's the one that if he could go live with people 272 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,120 up in the mountains, he'd do it. 273 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,880 He's the ultimate character. 274 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,520 He'll always be one of my best friends 275 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,320 but we don't see each other purely based because you move apart. 276 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,560 But he's a big, big character 277 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,000 and a massive character in football, 278 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,440 massive character in the music industry. 279 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,040 All the boys pretty much lived at my house every weekend. 280 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,920 My house was like, my mum looked after... 281 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,160 she pretty much started the Inter City Firm. 282 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,280 She looked after all of us. 283 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,280 This is number 30 and I can remember coming here 284 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,240 as a kid and dropping off shopping for Auntie Pam 285 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,440 as we used to call her, Mrs. Swallow 286 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,800 and I think only on one or two occasions 287 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,440 I actually went in the house, 288 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,480 but generally through the market, 289 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,520 if I did ever help her with the shopping, 290 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,080 I'd sort of leave it here and she used to take it in. 291 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,000 Came out with a little bag of sweets for you. 292 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,240 Give me a couple of sweets from... as Andy says, 293 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,160 from the front room, but because she... 294 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,240 I remember she used to carry a lot of sweets 295 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,840 in her coat, a long coat. 296 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,400 My house became the hub, so we're 15, 16, 297 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,800 we'd end up in the Boleyn and if we wasn't home by half 11, 298 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,640 my mum would be marching up that road, whacking us. 299 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,880 Now, don't forget, we'd become later on 300 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,320 to be the most feared gang in the field as we would say. 301 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,880 She would get on and whack us all the way home. 302 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,800 We must have had, if I said there was 15, 20 of us, 303 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:50,920 there was 30. 304 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,320 My front room, it was covered with people. 305 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,040 Everyone would stay every game. 306 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,080 We used to go from here and this was our hub. 307 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,480 This was our Boleyn, Chinese, 308 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,720 make sure we was in by 11:30 because she would whack us. 309 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,680 My parents did not want me to go football, 310 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,160 they didn't want me to play football, 311 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,400 they didn't want me to go West Ham, 312 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,360 they didn't want me involved in anything. 313 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,320 So, I used to have to lie the whole time 314 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,840 to actually go to West Ham. 315 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,600 And even when I was 17, 18 and old enough, 316 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,200 I still couldn't face my dad and tell him I was going West Ham. 317 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,760 He knew where I was going, and he knew 318 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,920 I was going to go in the pubs and whatever. 319 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,520 It's quite weird. It's all like a crossing period, this, 320 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,440 because '76, '77 is a massive period for music. 321 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,760 Punk. Punk rock kicks in, we're rebelling. 322 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,480 It's another rebel isn't it? Football is rebellion. 323 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,680 All of a sudden something else kicked off. 324 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,520 So, we was punks and I quickly come out of that. 325 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Everyone was sort of switching. 326 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,120 There was Madness and all that was coming through. 327 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,320 The Two-Tone was coming through, and I became a mod. 328 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,480 My ears were too big to be a skinhead. 329 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,640 I looked at it and I thought, I can't have big ears. 330 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,880 We used to laugh, we used to go down the Brit, 331 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,040 you'd have a Gabicci, a gold chain, 332 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,560 a pair of Farahs or Waxmans and a round glass. 333 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,400 We started to drink out of round glasses, 334 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,760 not the jug, round glass, a bowl. 335 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,320 So, it was all fashion consciousness. 336 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,880 So then that was a big part for us. 337 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,200 The music, then Oi came in. 338 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,680 Massive, yeah, one of the best bands around, Cockney Rejects. 339 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,120 Andy: London's finest... 340 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,040 Hello, Micky. 341 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,760 How we doing, Ed? All good. 342 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,240 Well basically, it was a bit of the East End. 343 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,520 There wasn't a lot music wise from around there. 344 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,200 We had the Small Faces from Leytonstone and Bethnal Green. 345 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,920 Couple of other bits and pieces, but, you know, 346 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,640 we decided we'd take our love of football 347 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,360 and our love of rock and roll and meld them together 348 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,680 and become what we thought was the world's 349 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,640 first terrace band because we love West Ham. 350 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,400 My grandad played for West Ham, you know what I mean? 351 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,560 So, we had a vested interest, lived a mile from the ground, 352 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,920 and basically, we all just met up and we all moved as one. 353 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,320 It was our firm and that was what we did. 354 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,680 We all moved as one. We went to all the gigs. 355 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,720 We caused chaos, we had chaos, you know what I mean? 356 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,440 We lived in the fast lane, and I don't regret any of it. 357 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,960 It was mad, but it was great. 358 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,680 You've got to remember as well though, 359 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,200 if you look at the history of the bands, 360 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,480 I don't think there's many bands that would actually take 361 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,440 full football songs on the road and not even alter 'em. 362 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,760 Running Through The Back Streets, 363 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,960 War On The Terraces, Bubbles. 364 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,480 And I know Jimmy Percy and them got 365 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,840 sort of hoodwinked into putting the West Ham thing, 366 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,680 but these boys actually went into Liverpool and played Bubbles, 367 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,680 War On The Terraces, Running Through The Back Streets. 368 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,200 You can name them, you know, really hardcore football songs. 369 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,080 If you imagine a band from Liverpool or Leeds 370 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,320 or something like coming to London and doing that, 371 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,680 then there'd be consequences. 372 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,320 When you look at it though, Mick 373 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,320 you took the hardcore of songs 374 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,400 that were football related to other... 375 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,400 And the hardcore of West Ham as well. 376 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,560 I'm a lot older so... we used to go on the train in them days 377 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,520 and we'd get off the train and you'd look around with people. 378 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,040 You always know the people that ain't going to be there 379 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,960 and I've got nothing against them people at all 380 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,200 because it takes all types to make the world. 381 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840 They'd be the ones that'd be laying back a bit, you know? 382 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,240 They'd be hanging back and then the ones at the front 383 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,080 you used to look around and it'd be these; 384 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,760 Cass, Carlton, Andy, myself, Ted, my mate, Big Ted, 385 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,320 loyal people that are loyal to this day. 386 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,520 I met Andy when he was at school. 387 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,880 He went to school with me sister at Brampton Manor. 388 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,480 He was a young Andy 389 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,880 and obviously he knew my mum and dad. 390 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,960 He grew up within that environment and Cass, everybody did. 391 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,480 Our house was open house, wasn't it, for the football fans! 392 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,080 But yeah, so I've known Andy all these years and like I said 393 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,840 he's always been there, at the front, with everything. 394 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,520 If you look back at us going to away games, 395 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,400 it was the year of the football special. 396 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,240 So, you used to get the football special 397 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,920 and what you're finding with a football special, 398 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,520 they were slow trains home, 399 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,400 they were the worst trains you could get on 400 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,080 and they were slow trains home. 401 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,720 So, what we used to note is that we could get... 402 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,080 Let's just say Saturday, going to Manchester 403 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,360 and we pulled in part way home, 404 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,360 we see the Inter City trains on the opposite. 405 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,120 We'd all jump off, get on the Inter City train 406 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,680 and we'd be back home probably an hour and a half quicker. 407 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,440 So that led us to think we might as well 408 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,520 try going on these trains. 409 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,640 I'm just remembering you get the label off 410 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,720 the Persil soap packet, right? 411 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,240 And it worked out for us to go 412 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,680 cheaper that way than going on these shuttle trains. 413 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,440 I think it was, if I'm right, it was two kids 414 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,360 could travel free with one adult over 16. 415 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,680 So that's how we was all travelling in groups of three. 416 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,760 Get someone who's over 16, they'd buy a ticket, and we go, 417 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,960 I think it went for £1, I think it was £1. 418 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,600 I'm pretty certain that's how it started. 419 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,520 And then me and Grant, and that became a big thing. 420 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,680 I don't think there's not many people didn't get on that. 421 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,800 Hooliganism was just very haphazard 422 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,000 in the '60s or '70s, it was all about 423 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,600 it all took place inside the ground basically, 424 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,000 it was all about charging, British Bulldogs and all that 425 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,960 and it was great fun and you could be a mug like myself, 426 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,520 and you could get involved in all that and spill around 427 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,000 and flip around in the terraces. 428 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,600 But then it moved outside. 429 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,240 When it moved outside the grounds 430 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,720 it needed a bit more organisation, 431 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,840 you needed someone to kind of... to basically... 432 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,840 you needed generals to emerge, people who could actually 433 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,680 give it a bit of thought and how you got to these places, 434 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,760 how you got to stadiums is important and who you met 435 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,160 and how you organised and all that sort of stuff 436 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:33,600 and it was all based that Andy had that general mentality, 437 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,960 like a lot of the top boys do. 438 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,400 Every firm needs its generals, 439 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,960 needed it at the time. 440 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,280 There's three of us that came up with a name. 441 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:51,480 There's me, Grant, and there's Mick Morgan, Ramsgate, 442 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,000 and we've got three different stories. 443 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,280 I could tell my story. Grant would tell his story 444 00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,880 and I've heard recently Micky tell his story. 445 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,120 And it's funny because we was involved in something that we 446 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,480 I suppose we set up, but we didn't realise we set up, 447 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,840 we never had no history of how we set it up. 448 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,200 You know what I mean? If that makes sense, 449 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,880 I didn't turn up and say we're going to sign a bit of paper, 450 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,240 and our first bit was signing that paper. 451 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,160 We all have our recollections of 452 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,720 how we became the Inter City Firm. 453 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,160 My recollection of being the Inter City Firm 454 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,000 is standing in the corner of the south bank, 20 or 30 of us, 455 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,520 singing ICF all game. All game for a year. 456 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,080 That was the inter-city days when it was... 457 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200 And obviously because Inter City Firm, 458 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,800 I dunno, it just caught on, Inter City travel. 459 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,320 We would've been called the Inter City Jibbers. 460 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,080 That's what our first name was, because what we used to do, 461 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,680 we used to jump off the train halfway home and jib home. 462 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,200 So then from that there was a little rail sign 463 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,520 and we used to call ourselves the Inter City Jibbers. 464 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,600 Now people in the know will know, before we was the ICF, 465 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,360 it was the Beret Boys. 466 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,000 All West Ham had the bomber jacket and the beret, 467 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,800 which is all the Brit lot, which is a little bit older than me. 468 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,920 The Gary Dickles, the Vince Riordans, Johnny Butlers, 469 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,640 they were all the Beret Boys. 470 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,360 So, they're the Beret Boys. 471 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,400 I've come from the EELF. 472 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,680 And then all of a sudden, we've now got the Inter City Jibbers. 473 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,440 Now we've got, this is where my side of it comes. 474 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,840 Grant nicks this bag 475 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,720 and it's got British Rail, Inter-City on it. 476 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,320 And then we said come on, we'll be the Inter City Firm 477 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,840 and from there we become the ICF. 478 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,960 The Beret Boys became the Good-Looking Firm. 479 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,160 They used to put these notes in and batter us, 480 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,160 because we were the younger ones. 481 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,880 Then we had a little, few younger ones come in with us, 482 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,760 which would be the Abrahams, the Rogers, 483 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,360 Lee Downers, Parker, Bacon, and they were the Under-Fives. 484 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,520 So, they never had a name and they become the Under-Fives. 485 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,920 So, we would fight them. 486 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,240 We would, not you know, coming home on trains, 487 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,720 we would have a fight with them. 488 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,840 We would then get beat up by the Good-Looking Firm 489 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,480 and then all of a sudden, we just evolved to be one big firm, 490 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,880 which was the ICF. 491 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,120 And then the Under-Fives had their own, 492 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,680 which become a little bit more unique down the line. 493 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,800 But I'd say when we stepped into the game, we was all one firm. 494 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:32,080 You can go anywhere in the country, any small town, 495 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,520 anywhere, and you'll find people there that are game for it. 496 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,960 I used to enjoy going, I used to enjoy going to Millwall 497 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,880 because one thing I thought was 498 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,560 they were very much like us in those times. 499 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,560 There wasn't no stabbings and none of that nonsense 500 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,840 that goes on, now, we'd go there and we'd have a fight 501 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,680 and it'd be all over and nobody innocent would get hit, 502 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,840 it'd only be the people that wanted to fight would fight, 503 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,600 but that don't sell newspapers so people put it out 504 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,120 that all these people, innocent people are getting hurt 505 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,120 absolute nonsense. 506 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,280 There might've been one or two that got in the way. 507 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,000 I don't know that, but all I know is what I saw 508 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,360 and what I experienced. 509 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,840 The only people I used to fight 510 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,760 were the ones who used to want to fight me. 511 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,160 The first of it stems from Villa away. 512 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,000 We had this thing about taking ends. 513 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,040 This is why we say about the Under-Fives. 514 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,720 That's why we're coming into it. 515 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,960 This is pre-ICF. 516 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,040 When we travelled away, 517 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,120 we had such a reputation by then, it was getting harder. 518 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,000 So we didn't want kids with us. 519 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,640 You went up north and you know what I mean, 520 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,600 monsters, some of em. 521 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,280 So we'd always try and lose the kids. 522 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,200 We felt it weakened the firm and we got in Villa one day 523 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,880 and there's one end we've not taken 524 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,720 and Chelsea had done a little go of it so we thought 525 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,440 we've got to have a part here, 526 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,400 but we got thwarted and it's kicking off in the Villa end, 527 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,000 I remember everyone was looking around, what firm is it? 528 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000 And we looked around, every firm was in away that day 529 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,040 and we were baffled why is it kicking off in the Villa end 530 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,600 and all of a sudden they were marched out by the police 531 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,680 and frog-marched along the pitch and it was the Under-Fives. 532 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,080 We'd be at Euston, Kings Cross, wherever it was 533 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,680 and then you'd have all the older lot go to the front, 534 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,200 get the money and two young ones would be with you. 535 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,400 So it looked like you had the two adults and two young ones. 536 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,320 And so we started travelling Inter-City. 537 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,040 That's the way we got to travel now. 538 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:21,960 And that's when Persil came out because 539 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,840 how can you get the whole firm on an Inter-City train? 540 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240 It's first class, different price. Persil was a godsend. 541 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,120 We found something a little bit different. 542 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,240 By around about 17, my mum moved me out of East London 543 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,920 to get me out of trouble. 544 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,640 So, she moved me to Southend, 545 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,480 which got me in probably more trouble. 546 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,960 So, and Grant was only two stops away. 547 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,640 So, I used to get on at Southend, all Chelsea, quite lively for me. 548 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,520 One day we got into the ticket inspector's box. 549 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,760 They used to have their own little box, we rummaged through. 550 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,560 We found his ticket, his thing. 551 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,240 So, we worked out how to write 'em out. 552 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,080 So, we used to write a ticket. 553 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,760 When you look at it now, our crew, we used to write a ticket, 554 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,080 Benfleet in pen to Newcastle and it's like £11.60 555 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,680 and we used to tear it and when we used to get pulled, 556 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,920 we used to show that, and it worked, 557 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,920 and we just started writing tickets. 558 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,800 We used to write our own book every game. 559 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,880 There was no stamp, there was nothing. 560 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,160 The ticket inspector didn't know what they was, 561 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,400 no one knew what they was. 562 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,520 And we travelled probably two or three seasons. 563 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,880 And then we started selling them. 564 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,400 We took on a new role as a job. 565 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,200 I can actually talk about it now because my mum 566 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,520 can't tell me off because I'm sure she would've told me off. 567 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,080 I think even to the day she wouldn't have 568 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,440 believed what we was doing. 569 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,560 So basically, what we did, fashion had come in 570 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,720 and jumpers and that were through the roof. 571 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,520 He was supplying me t-shirts. 572 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,680 He was a bit of a market boy, a bit of a barrow boy, 573 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,040 but he was always on the next move. 574 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,040 And I remember the funniest thing 575 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,640 looking at the older guard, we was picking up on this early, 576 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,840 the casual thing really started late '70s 577 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,680 with the Scousers and the Mancs. 578 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,080 But the London boys, they take it a little bit further. 579 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,920 You're a size 8, so we know we need an 8, 580 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,040 we know we need a 10. 581 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,840 We know that we need an extra-large track suit. 582 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,680 Lacoste, didn't matter what it was, they were buying it. 583 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,960 So the Lacoste thing, 'What's all this with the crocodile?' 584 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:19,920 You know what I mean? 585 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,080 West Ham still had that hard man image 586 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,880 because the Krays of the '60s going into the late '70s. 587 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,280 So they're still wearing the old DMs and maybe swapped 588 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,560 for the trainers and sort of mako look 589 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,240 and all of a sudden these boys looking like pop stars 590 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,400 with the polo tops 591 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,360 and Andy was already on that 592 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,520 because he's flogging me these double crocs 593 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,760 and suddenly at Green Street, walking down Green Street, 594 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,360 the older guard are wearing them in their 70s, quite proud. 595 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,640 And I think, I see them, and Andy, I said 'What's these?' 596 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,080 And he's always on the next move like, 597 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,760 'No Cass, this is the next thing, 598 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,080 everyone's wearing the one croc, we're West Ham, 599 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,200 we've got the two crocs, double croc.' 600 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,480 I bought a shirt off him, it had 6 legs. 601 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,720 Snide. Know what I mean, snide. 602 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,960 Like I said, he was a funny man. 603 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,360 He was having a chuckle because the older crew, 604 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:09,920 everyone's kind of looking up to 605 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,120 thought they were like bang top boys 606 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,160 all wearing double crocs without even realising. 607 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,160 It's one of Andy's moves again. 608 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,720 You know what I mean? It's sell anybody anything. 609 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,240 I didn't know till I went to the zoo 610 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,040 that a crocodile only had four legs. 611 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,400 He was always funny. 612 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,800 I used to call him, 'my naughty big boy', 613 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,960 because he were a wolf in sheep's clothing. 614 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,200 That's how I regarded him. 615 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,120 We found a unique way of doing it. 616 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,520 We started leaving... We get a train, 617 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,920 we go Clacton on a Saturday, Sunday night. 618 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,720 We spend the night in a caravan at Clacton. 619 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,800 We then go to Harwich; we'd get the boat across 620 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400 to Hook of Holland and then we'd get trains. 621 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,080 We'd all split up. 622 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,360 There'd be say three or four of us, we'd go off 623 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,600 and we'd go around thieving from shops. 624 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,880 So, everybody would go off Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday, 625 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,800 thieving, and we'd all meet at Wendy's in Cologne 626 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,680 8 o'clock and then we'd all come back together on Thursday. 627 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,480 Back to the pub on Friday to the Brit with all your gear, 628 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,680 sell it all, football on the Saturday, 629 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,800 you didn't have Friday night games, you didn't have Sunday, 630 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,800 you'd have a midweek game every now and then. 631 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,680 It was predominantly Saturday, 3 o'clock. 632 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,960 So, all back for the football, back off on the Sunday. 633 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,560 That's what I did for a job until one day, 634 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,160 me, Danny, and Dave, we decided to take a car. 635 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,720 It seems strange, 636 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,360 a lot different to when I was here around about '84. 637 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,920 Well we know '84, I had my old Mark 4 Red Cortina, 638 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,080 me, Danny and the Lud and we was driving through, 639 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,040 town to town picking up a few goods 640 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,240 and we didn't come home. 641 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,800 We used to go around mainly on trains and boats. 642 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,760 We used to... it was in the highlight of if you like, 643 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,920 when all the fashion of the clothes came up and about. 644 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:19,160 So basically we would go from town to town through Germany, 645 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,320 up to Switzerland, Austria, going in, looking at shops, 646 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,840 looking for Ellesse, Fila, Sergio Tacchini. 647 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,960 And we used to have a list of people's sizes. 648 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,160 And on this particular three day excursion, 649 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,360 we came over and we was making our way 650 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,920 up to the Swiss ski resorts, trying to pick off some Ellesse jackets. 651 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,800 When we got a bit further up, they wanted to put chains 652 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,960 on our wheels, but on route we'd already found a place. 653 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,520 We were reading it as 'Bad-un' and it's actually 'Bar-den'. 654 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,120 So we thought let's have a look around. 655 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,240 We see some lovely leather jackets. 656 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,240 So we sort of sized them up, 657 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,240 said we'd get 'em on the way back. 658 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,920 We came back to Baden quicker than we thought. 659 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,280 We were looking at the leathers and whatever. 660 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,680 We didn't fancy it and as we was walking out, we was arrested. 661 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,160 The Lud was in a police station. 662 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,960 Danny was in a prison and I was in the tower, 663 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,120 which is famous, which I've read up... 664 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,200 witches, robbers and murderers. 665 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,320 So I'm not sure what category I fell into. 666 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,800 Hopefully not the witches. 667 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,120 So we're going to drive to Baden. 668 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,200 We're going to go and have a look at my cell, I believe, 669 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,360 that I stayed in. 670 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,720 Wow. There she is. Wow, look at that. 671 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,240 I'm not sure if I was 1, 2, 3, 4... 672 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,120 1 below the bell and 1 down. 673 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,040 That's mad. That's unbelievable. 674 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,960 It actually looks a lovely place. It's a lovely place. 675 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,360 I must have been taken up them back stairs there. 676 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,840 Look, wow, 40 years ago, eh? 677 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,080 How mad is that? 678 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,160 We going to look for somewhere to park? 679 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,400 I want to go and have a look. 680 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,680 It's quite strange pulling up here today, 681 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,400 looking at this lovely tower behind me. 682 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,280 I was here around about April '84. 683 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,560 I was led up these stairs to something that 684 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,360 thinking back now, when I look at it, it looks daunting now, 685 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,720 but coming back in '84, where probably 686 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,480 things look a little bleaker. 687 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,760 And I spent three months, three and a half months, 688 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,360 solitary confinement in this tower. 689 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,040 This courtyard, as you can see, this is dated, 690 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,320 well, back to the... 691 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,200 what's it, 1445 century? 692 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,280 There's the bells used to wake me up, bang on time, 693 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,920 that was above my cell. 694 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,440 Every day, every hour I'd get these bells. 695 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,520 What's it? 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock now? 696 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,320 I think they put me in there to come out like Quasimodo! 697 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,520 Look at that! Imagine that every day for four months. 698 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,040 Every hour, you got that. 699 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,120 I think they put me in here 700 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,680 to teach me a lesson, not to come back to Baden. 701 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,440 Wow, look at that. 702 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,440 So I finally get to go in on my own accord. 703 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,600 Wow, unbelievable! 704 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,280 Mate, look at that. 705 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,920 As I said, my light was on my wall. 706 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,000 This light was on four in the morning. 707 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,760 I had my table, my chair here, my bed was here. 708 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,280 And this is where I used to put my chair just by this window 709 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,800 and I could open that window. 710 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,280 I'm not sure if I could now, but, 711 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,680 so I could possibly open that window with my arm. 712 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,240 Little locks... 713 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,760 Look. Lock these, open it and then 714 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,480 we used to get the bucket, boom it against here 715 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,560 and you get it out there. 716 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,120 Yeah, look at these. 717 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,720 Look at this. Wow. 718 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,960 Four months in here. Where's my little sign of... 719 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,400 is that gone now? 720 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,080 I had my chart on there somewhere of my... 721 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,120 how many days I was here. 722 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,360 I wonder if many people came here after me. 723 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:01,760 Forget that. 724 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,840 I reckon someone else done that. It was a fake. 725 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,640 And as I said, I've got that on my arm. 726 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:10,760 Look at that. 727 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,560 Taken from my arm. 728 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,720 To a picture on the wall, wow. 729 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,960 Daunting. 730 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,680 Yeah. Look at that. 731 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,720 Ah, here. This would be where I start to do my days. 732 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,040 Someone did theirs. This is mine here. 733 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,600 'Andy Swallow, April.' 734 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,680 It's soaking wet innit? 735 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,200 Yeah. Here somewhere would be my chart 736 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,320 because here's my, 'Andy Swallow, March-April 84.' 737 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,600 Look at that. Wow. 738 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,200 I don't remember this one. 739 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,200 Don't remember this. 740 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,240 Just still can remember my bed. 741 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,280 So I used to do my walk. I said 20 steps. 742 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,880 I used to do my steps. 743 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,920 So I used to do 1, 2, 3... It's 12 isn't it? 744 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,520 7, 8, 9, 10, Turn. 745 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,480 And then one, two... 746 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,120 That was my exercise for the day was walking up and down here 747 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,960 about a hundred times. 748 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,400 In the end, I said, 'Just try and do it like that.' 749 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,880 To see if I can work out how many it was, I think it was 12. 750 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,280 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Oh, 10, 11, 12. 751 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,040 It's got bigger. 14 steps. Yeah. 752 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,520 As I say, that would be my exercise path 753 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,880 would be up and down here. 754 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,520 My press ups and sit ups. I might have to do a few. 755 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,400 Wow. 756 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,400 I don't know what to say. 757 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,800 Takes me back. 758 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,040 Good evening, the headlines at 6 o'clock. 759 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,960 Britain's football hooligans have started their season early 760 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,040 with a riot on a North Sea ferry. 761 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,760 Knives were used, bottles and glasses thrown, 762 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,560 behaviour which could prolong the ban 763 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,280 on English teams playing abroad. 764 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,680 We decided to meet in the Brit and get the last ferry 765 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,320 to the Hook of Holland, we was going to Den Haag. 766 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,480 That was it. 767 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,720 So, we get to the station, to Liverpool Street, walked in. 768 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,600 Looked around and thought, 'Who are all these?' 769 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,640 There was loads, I'm talking a lot. 770 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,120 Especially I think, these ain't West Ham 771 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,920 because all our lot are gone, we know they're gone. 772 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,240 All of a sudden, I'm looking and thinking, 'Who's this lot?' 773 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,200 Man United, came to London, 774 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,520 you've got a lot of cockney red, they've come to London, 775 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,560 they're on the same train as us at Liverpool Street, 776 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,040 they're going to the Hook of Holland, 777 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,480 they're going... to somewhere like Rotterdam. 778 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,200 Somewhere like that. They was off. 779 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,840 So, I think, 'Oh no, what we going to do?' 780 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,400 So, we go up, spoke to the fellow and he said, 781 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,800 'You get this boat, or you don't.' 782 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,400 So, there was an upper-class ticket and, mad, 783 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,480 the actual room we bought the ticket for, 784 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,720 was called the Inter City suite, how mad is that? 785 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,600 So, we bought first class tickets, 14 of us, 786 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,880 we go upstairs on the ferry now. 787 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,120 The ferry goes out and a few drinks, there's got to be... 788 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,960 in my estimation I'd say it's a good 300 , maybe 400, 789 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,040 their estimation of the story, whether it makes much difference, 790 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,640 there was 200 of them, didn't make a lot of difference. 791 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,680 We were still really outnumbered. 792 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,480 BBC News: "The Dutch-owned Koningin Beatrix 793 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,600 packed with 2,000 holidaymakers left Harwich on schedule 794 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,640 late last night but two hours into her journey, 795 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,800 the ferry, the pride of Sealink's fleet, 796 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,800 was turned into a battle ground." 797 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,240 And then had a few beers, ferry's gone off. 798 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,240 I said, 'Oh come on, let's go down and have a chat.' 799 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,440 So, me and three of my mates went downstairs 800 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,840 but they ended up getting big lumps of bird. 801 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,120 We was talking to 'em alright at first, 802 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,720 but there'd been a major incident where one of theirs 803 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,800 had been stabbed at Plaistow 804 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,160 and someone had sent him a get well card from all the West Ham, 805 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,160 and they took in some flowers and didn't go down too well. 806 00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,080 So, as I'm talking to them, they're all getting around me 807 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,240 and I was saying to them, 808 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,800 'Any of you from Manchester? 809 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,440 You're from Wolves, you're from... any Manchester here?' 810 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,080 A geezer's gone, 'I'm from Manchester.' 811 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,160 And all of a sudden, I could see he was coming up with a bottle. 812 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:38,800 So, I said, 'Well it's time to go.' 813 00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:41,280 'They're here, they're here.' 814 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,040 Next minute it was carnage. It was... 815 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,640 Joe, bless his soul, he saved us really because he got the hose 816 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:51,440 from the seat and blocked off one staircase. 817 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,240 They were trying to get up, but he was hosing them down 818 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,800 and then we held off the others. 819 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,600 There was me, Taffy, Danny, it went on 30, 40 minutes. 820 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,520 It went on that long, they turned the boat round 821 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,640 and took us back. I thought we was there. 822 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,160 But anyway, I was lucky. 823 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,560 We've all sort of made out it's nothing to do with us. 824 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,520 For some reason I took my shoes off for some reason. 825 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,880 Changed my shoes, changed my coat, sat down, 826 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,000 went up and got my jacket, sat there 827 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,600 and the thing they was doing was coming up testing your feet, 828 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,560 where they were wet. 829 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,600 BBC Reporter: Fans arriving back in London 830 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,040 gave a grim catalogue of the running battle. 831 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,880 There's a lot of slashing and things. 832 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,000 BBC Reporter: What, knives? 833 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,160 Yeah, blades and bottles and things. 834 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,760 When the boat pulled in, they started pulling... 835 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,880 first of all they started taking off the casualties, 836 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,880 I think it was something like 22 taken off, went to hospital, 837 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,800 they were taking people off in chairs and it's all documented. 838 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,600 So, we still ain't really thought about what's gone on. 839 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:45,640 It's just been a fight. 840 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,280 So, I'm off, I'm the only one who's off, I can't see no one. 841 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,000 I only walk onto a platform, don't I? 842 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,360 It's full of Man United on the train. 843 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,520 'Oi, oi, get him on here.' And someone said, 'No mate', 844 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,640 'No, officer, he's with us. He's Man U!' 845 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,320 They go, 'You Man United?' 'No, I'm not!' 846 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,520 He's going, 'Get on that train, come on.' 847 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,360 They're trying to pull me on the train. 848 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,480 I'm thinking no way am I getting on that train. 849 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,320 So, I went across the road and I bumped into a few of the boys, 850 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,800 and we worked out, there was only eight of us left. 851 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,800 I think, no six of us left, eight got nicked. 852 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:17,920 Massive court trial. 853 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,640 A lot of them all got 8's and 10's, yeah, got done for piracy. 854 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,560 I didn't get done on that one, but I got done on the next one. 855 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,920 I think they probably didn't do me on that one 856 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,520 because they'd already built a case for me, 857 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,680 and I think it would've jeopardised what they was 858 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,720 trying to get me for which was the bigger... I say the bigger, 859 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,000 but they got 10 years, how much bigger do you want it to be? 860 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,840 But them boys who got the 10 ended up on my trial, as well. 861 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,080 Yeah. So yeah, that was the old famous ferry. 862 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,080 It was the January, around about January '87. 863 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,920 I remember going to Arsenal 864 00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,800 and I remember getting to the station, 865 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,360 there was all the Arsenal around and the coppers singled... 866 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,760 they don't usually single me out, they do, 867 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,960 but not the away old bill, if that makes sense. 868 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,960 The local old bill used to whack us every week, 869 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,200 I didn't mind that. 870 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,920 And they've got hold of me and the copper said something 871 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,720 to me, really always stuck in my mind. 872 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,760 He went to me; 'We'll see you on Monday.' 873 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,360 Always stuck in my mind, 'See you on Monday.' 874 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,440 Didn't think nothing of it, went off home. 875 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,320 Monday morning, boom, door went through, 876 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,440 6 in the morning. 877 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,840 Operation Full Time was the result of detailed 878 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,800 surveillance by special cameras, 879 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,440 undercover and uniformed officers on so-called ringleaders. 880 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,320 There'd been a big clamp down 881 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,440 and by then, everyone knew 882 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,200 the football situation and names and ICF and all that 883 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,520 and to show they'd got the right people, certain people, 884 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,880 me, Bill, Andy ended up in court 885 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,800 and we knew we was in shit 886 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,720 because the year before, they'd done the Chelsea lot 887 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,000 and gave 'em 10 years and they wanted the same for us. 888 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,400 We'd had an infiltration by police. 889 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,920 We was the next big trot. 890 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,600 So, they done us and at the same day they done us, 891 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:07,840 they done Millwall. 892 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,280 It's quite funny, say they done Millwall, 893 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,360 it was six clowns. 894 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,960 And I say six clowns because they were proper clowns, 895 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,200 they weren't Millwall... They might be Millwall. 896 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,000 But they weren't Millwall. 897 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,480 It's quite mad because we go... we get put up; 898 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:25,840 we get banged up in prison. 899 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,400 I was with Cass. I was banged up with Cass. Bill was there. 900 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,960 Those arrested are being charged tonight 901 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,120 with conspiracy to cause affrays. 902 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,920 For such offences, there are no limits to the penalties. 903 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,320 I don't have a police record as an adult. 904 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,560 Done a few naughty things when I was a kid, 905 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,560 but I've got no police record as an adult. 906 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,480 And that's what comes as the biggest shock 907 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,040 for me when I was arrested. 908 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,360 I mean, I don't mind saying I had a nervous breakdown 909 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,080 because it shocked me. 910 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,720 I had my dad dying. 911 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,400 I had a broken leg, my second one in a year playing football 912 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,440 and it just all come on top of me and I couldn't handle it. 913 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,880 You know what I mean? And don't mind admitting it. 914 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,560 I knew how serious the trial was, 915 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,400 1) because the Chelsea fan had already got 10 years, 916 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,280 2) my name for football violence was well known to the old bill. 917 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,520 In fact, it's gone on record that I was the first football fan 918 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,000 to be given a lengthy jail sentence way back in the '70s. 919 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,960 So I knew how serious it was for me, 920 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,040 but my one saving grace was I'd been long retired then 921 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,320 and stopped going to football. 922 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,440 And when I did, it was only used to use the pubs 923 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,560 to play cards and then wouldn't go in the match. 924 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,800 We ended up on trial six and a half months, I think it was, 925 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,800 six and a half months. It was a complete fit-up. 926 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,280 And to prove how political it was, 927 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,440 Andy was down as a market trader 928 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960 and he was on £100,000 bail. Right? 929 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,440 The only people on £100,000 bail was the highest criminals 930 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,800 in the land at the time, was Brink's-Mat. 931 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,200 They were on the same. 932 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,360 So going to football, you know what I mean? 933 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,560 Football fans? Tell me it's not political. 934 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,800 I think that we'd found out down the line 935 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,400 that a lot of the officers had been involved in grassing 936 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,400 and cutting up someone in... 937 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,560 Bethnal Green way, Stepney Green, 938 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,680 and we got the information of it 939 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,880 and then we kept asking for testing. 940 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,520 We could see it was a fit up. 941 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,400 You could see that he would wrote yours and you wrote yours 942 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:24,720 and it was a complete fit-up. 943 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:25,840 Somebody comes up; 944 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,640 'I wasn't even there. I wasn't even in the country.' 945 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:29,440 So everyone knew I was never involved. 946 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,680 I couldn't see how... I knew it was a fit up, 947 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,400 but I couldn't see how they was doing it. 948 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,080 I knew why I was in the frame because I knew it's political 949 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,760 and they wanted to show they could nick any fans, 950 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,360 but they wanted names to show to the press and the media, 951 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,200 they're getting their house in order. 952 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,200 I was 14, Cass was 14, 953 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,920 coming down the line, it would've been 10s. 954 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,160 There was... probably the lowest sentence on that day 955 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:55,520 would've been 14 years for football, for things I ain't done? 956 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,240 Crikey! Anyway, they did this thing called enzyme testing. 957 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,680 They put this charcoal in it and they shake it 958 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:02,880 a million miles an hour. 959 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,680 And if somebody's written into something on the page above it, 960 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:07,880 it comes through. 961 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,080 So they'd added it. 962 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,880 There was no evidence that to add it, 963 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,800 to make it look like we was guilty. 964 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,400 What I didn't realise with enzyme testing, 965 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,800 it's the form of lead pencil I suppose, 966 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,640 in a way it's like tracing and you get it and you shake. 967 00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,000 What we noticed with the evidence, there was gaps, 968 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,440 and the writing was different. 969 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,400 So, if I was writing, me or you would write, 970 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,720 if you was writing your scripts, you'd have a free flow 971 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,680 of how you'd write, you wouldn't write, gap, 972 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,960 write and then come back 973 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:42,080 and then let's say November, imprinted in November 974 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,320 would've been, it's got to be the right way round. 975 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,160 So, November would have December, printed in November. 976 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:51,680 Well, November should be filed. 977 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,800 Yeah? So how can you have December's notes 978 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,240 across your recollection, 979 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,080 it's physically impossible. Yeah? 980 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,360 So, they found that they'd been falsifying, putting the words 981 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,040 in the names who was there. 982 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400 And when they was coming back from late games, 983 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,400 one was doing it and they was doctoring all of them. 984 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,400 We come in one day, because we had to get locked up 985 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,520 every morning and every night before... 986 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,960 we had to let the jury go before they let us out. 987 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,440 And went in the morning, 988 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,720 didn't lock us up, didn't lock us up. 989 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,840 I said, 'Something's not right here, 990 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,080 they must have the results of the enzyme.' 991 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,960 They said, 'Would you come out?' 992 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,840 We come out, they said, 'You're free.' 993 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,120 Police were lying. Case collapsed. 994 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,320 After our trial, which we was the pioneers of it, 995 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,280 all the miscarriage of justice cases over that decade 996 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:50,720 were all back on. 997 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,040 Every famous case you can think of 998 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,520 you knew didn't sit right with you, 999 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,160 they'd all had the retrials and the appeals, 1000 00:48:58,240 --> 00:48:59,840 all the appeals are exhausted 1001 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,560 because you can't find new evidence as time goes on, 1002 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,200 evidence gets worse, don't it? 1003 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,120 People's memories, everything. So they're not going nowhere. 1004 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,480 Through the ESDA, these cases got a conclusion, 1005 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,480 they could reopen them because they examined evidence 1006 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,720 that was there and proved it had been tampered with 1007 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,080 and fitted up in like they did in our case. 1008 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,160 Tonight the men were out celebrating 1009 00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,000 in their local pub, toasting the end of a 14 month ordeal. 1010 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,160 What do they think of the court's decision 1011 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:28,400 that some evidence had been falsified? 1012 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,000 Falsify? It's total lies because what had happened, 1013 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,040 right, they sent out thugs 1014 00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:36,160 to get thugs 1015 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:37,920 and when they find there's no thugs performing 1016 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,960 over football matches, they decided anybody would do. 1017 00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,120 As far as the police, I'd like to see them prosecuted. 1018 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,760 If not, take it further as far as we can take it 1019 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,480 to prove our innocence so that everybody knows 1020 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,480 and hopefully compensation our way. 1021 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,880 And it'll take many, many years to restore the police 1022 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,200 like we've got going on there today with the Met 1023 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,560 to restore their reputation. 1024 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,960 So they held their hands up and these cases 1025 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,960 over the next five years after our trial collapsed 1026 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,600 all happened on the back of the football thing. 1027 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,120 But they never talk about our case. 1028 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,320 The football case is a result of that because it's a taboo word. 1029 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,000 You can't mention football hooligans. 1030 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,600 No one ever really sees about... 1031 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,840 when they interview people like us 1032 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,360 it's how we're perceived is 1033 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,200 we don't care what the government thinks about us, 1034 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:30,320 society, politicians, whoever you are, laws, 1035 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,560 whether you are the monarchy, whoever. 1036 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,760 We care about what we think about each other, 1037 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,000 that is from the heart. 1038 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,040 What we think about each other, that's what makes us tick. 1039 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,280 And if the rest of the world don't like us, well so be it. 1040 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,600 Well as you know, West Ham's firm probably had an influence 1041 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,640 on lots of other firms in different countries 1042 00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:58,200 around the world over the years. 1043 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,280 But, probably, our only friendship 1044 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,040 that is worth talking about is with Lazio. 1045 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,320 They're very close to us, similar sort of people 1046 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,720 and they've become very good friends. 1047 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,360 So as I say, there's only really for us, 1048 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,640 other people might say they've been to Milan and whatever, 1049 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:16,200 but for us as a firm and West Ham, Lazio. 1050 00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:33,600 So I get to travel abroad and meet other fans by invitation 1051 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,080 to see what it is for them, particularly the Ultras. 1052 00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:38,400 We did Spain and Italy, yeah, 1053 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,440 and I always find it interesting because 1054 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,520 there is political influence. 1055 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,560 The ICF is pretty unique because it started off 1056 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,600 this whole organised mob culture basically. 1057 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,000 The one name that you always think of that 1058 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,480 when it comes to the ICF 1059 00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:57,920 is Andy Swallow 1060 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,280 because he was kind of the figurehead for this 1061 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,640 and he was the one who was... 1062 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,440 whose name was so well known, not just in London 1063 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,000 but in England and beyond, into the rest of the UK, 1064 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,880 and into Europe as well. 1065 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,800 1, 2, 3. 1066 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:26,680 Hey, you! 1067 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:32,440 How you been? 1068 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:33,520 Yeah, not bad. 1069 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,040 Yeah, I'm really good, you? 1070 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:40,960 Good. 1071 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:43,640 That's good! 1072 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:45,840 All the new places, now. 1073 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:46,760 The new places, yeah. 1074 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:48,360 Fuckin' brilliant, that looks brilliant, don't it? 1075 00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,680 If someone like... 1076 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,560 people, members of Inter-City Firm come to you, to... 1077 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,040 to talk about friendship, a relationship 1078 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,000 is going to be proud 1079 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,720 because we are not talking about a normal firm. 1080 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,120 We are talking about one of the most important firm in England. 1081 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,520 Probably... 1082 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,480 In the world, also. 1083 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,800 In this world. 1084 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:24,800 I mean... 1085 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,080 So first of all, 1086 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,120 I mean, it's not the first firm came and say, 1087 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,800 'Okay, we can be friends.' 1088 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,200 It was Inter-City Firm. 1089 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,520 So of course it's normal 1090 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,040 that you want to talk with them. 1091 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,000 You want to understand if you have something 1092 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,280 in common. 1093 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:56,800 And then we knew each other, we had a great time together. 1094 00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,920 Yes! 1095 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,680 The English style in our group? 1096 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:01,720 Yeah, very. 1097 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,480 Because, when in the stadium during the years, 80 years, 1098 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,040 many fans in the stadium were folkloristic. 1099 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:18,360 We decide to take the English style, Lazio, and Verona too. 1100 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,040 Inter start too with the English style. 1101 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:22,960 Yeah. 1102 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:28,160 And it's one of the reasons that we are very close now. 1103 00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:32,000 And I think in your mindset, and the way you are, 1104 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,360 you're very... 1105 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,120 very West Ham, very English. 1106 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:36,920 Lazio and Verona. 1107 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,360 Yeah. 1108 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,680 The first was Verona. 1109 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,280 Verona the first, yeah. 1110 00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:44,440 Was Verona. 1111 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,360 And then Lazio. 1112 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:48,440 So it's very early. 1113 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:49,640 The English style. 1114 00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:50,880 In the 80 years, 1115 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,360 many Ultras also are very folkloristic in many stadiums 1116 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,600 above all in the south of Italy, but not only. 1117 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,880 I would like just to talk, just also... 1118 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,280 to another point 1119 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,280 because this is just because we want to say 1120 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,160 how good and how beautiful is this friendship. 1121 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,880 So this relationship grow up 1122 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,440 and now is going to 1123 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,000 be a real friendship. 1124 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,960 I mean, we are really friends. 1125 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,400 We are not just friends for Lazio or West Ham. 1126 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,640 And I said that before, we're not just football friends, 1127 00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,080 I've said that before because I've probably not 1128 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,840 been for two years, 1129 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,920 but if I see you and you, it's like I'm not... 1130 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,600 'I saw you last week.' 1131 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,280 You know, and to see them all getting... 1132 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:45,720 Like this one, getting older. 1133 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:47,600 I'm getting older! 1134 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,520 He's always young, this one. 1135 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:50,640 That's brilliant. 1136 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,720 In East London, we are pretty much in our side of London. 1137 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,840 We're lucky in London 1138 00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,880 as such as East London is West Ham. 1139 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,280 North London, there's two. 1140 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,600 So, we can be proud to be of us. 1141 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,120 But in London we're not the biggest, 1142 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,040 well I'm going to say, 1143 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,000 I'll get slaughtered in fact, we are the biggest! 1144 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,040 We're massive. 1145 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:13,800 Gotta watch what I say! 1146 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:15,440 We're massive. 1147 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,360 You are massive! 1148 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,760 You understand what we're saying. Don't wanna get in trouble. 1149 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,400 We'll move on from that one. 1150 00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,080 You know why, because many people make mistake 1151 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,040 that Rome, because the name of the other 1152 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,520 is Rome, Roma. 1153 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:30,520 So... 1154 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,280 They automatically think Rome. 1155 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,280 Is the first team of Rome, but it's not like that. 1156 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:35,200 No, it's not. 1157 00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,360 So, because also for the colours, Lazio choose. 1158 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,640 That's why they start with many sports. 1159 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:44,040 The colour of Greece, because... 1160 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:45,200 The Olympic games. 1161 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,360 Where they started, Olympic games. 1162 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,200 So, the colours from there. 1163 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,320 The eagle is the symbol of Rome. 1164 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,200 The colours are from Greece. 1165 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,200 And this is why Lazio have this kind of 1166 00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,680 component on the symbol. 1167 00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:04,360 In our story, we like to go against whole. 1168 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,080 We are less, because it's easy to be... 1169 00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,600 'I'm fan of Roma because every immigrants.' 1170 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,760 Anyone can be Roma. 1171 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,880 'Every people arrive here, we name Roma, Roma.' 1172 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,280 It's easier, okay? 1173 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,960 For us, it's a sense of proud to go against whole. 1174 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:26,680 And this thing made us stronger than the other part of Rome. 1175 00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,360 OK? It's in our... 1176 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,760 It's the same as West Ham, we were always the underdogs. 1177 00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,920 And made it, and now Lazio firm 1178 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,040 is known in all the world. 1179 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,720 Yeah, everybody. 1180 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,480 Because we made... 1181 00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,600 we made troubles everywhere! 1182 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,240 In Rome and everywhere, because we have 1183 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,360 a political way of mind, way of living. 1184 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,000 And all the people that are part of... 1185 00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,120 all right people in Europe 1186 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,200 want to be close with us, for our way of living, 1187 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,240 for our way of fighting, 1188 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,320 for our mind, and for us is a sense of pride. 1189 00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:11,720 Of course. No... 1190 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,640 The best thing with... 1191 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:19,120 If this happen, we made the good things. 1192 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:20,280 I've seen it. 1193 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,080 Andy, it's simple. 1194 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,760 I think... we think, that it's very simple 1195 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,080 that to be a supporter of Lazio is a choice. 1196 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:30,120 Yes. 1197 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,520 It's a choice. You have to make your choice in your life. 1198 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,680 Because when you grow up in school, you are alone. 1199 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,280 It's strange, when... like, I'm 63. 1200 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,440 And I come from East London, 1201 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,600 and I know you say you have a choice, 1202 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,680 but your choice is made for you from birth. 1203 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,040 My family were West Ham. So, I had no choice. 1204 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,160 I had no Man United shirt put on me. 1205 00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:57,760 I would've been slapped. 1206 00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,800 So, from us... your children will be Lazio, 1207 00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,680 my children are West Ham. 1208 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,080 So, I know what you say as a choice, 1209 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,640 but the choice is - no choice. 1210 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,240 You are West Ham! 1211 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,680 That's the choice, the choice is no choice. 1212 00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:13,720 No choice. 1213 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,000 You have no choice. My Danny? West Ham. 1214 00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,400 Beau? West Ham. 1215 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:18,840 Your family? West Ham. 1216 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,680 The choice was made for us. 1217 00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,960 The choice is easy for... 1218 00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,440 My daughter, is there, she said, 'I like a guy. 1219 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,400 He is a Roma fan.' No! 1220 00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,800 Not in my house, not in my house, 1221 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:35,040 No! 1222 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,080 We prefer Lazio. 1223 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:38,920 Choose another... 1224 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,000 Choose again! 1225 00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,160 I like that! 1226 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,080 I've come back now for... probably been two years maybe 1227 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,520 since I've been to Rome maybe. 1228 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,200 And I now notice, and if you don't mind me saying, 1229 00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,720 there's a lovely sign up there that says Ultras Lazio. 1230 00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,760 And I've seen from the picture coming in, now 1231 00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,080 you have the banner with Ultras Lazio, a name change. 1232 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,200 A few things have changed over a period, 1233 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,160 which you know we know. 1234 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:10,880 And why have you changed? 1235 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,160 We are forever Irriducibili. 1236 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,200 Irriducibili is... 1237 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:17,160 Is in your heart, I understand. 1238 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,320 It's in our mind. It's in our soul. 1239 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:20,600 Yes, I understand. 1240 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,200 But for this time, in these times, 1241 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,840 we decided to give to the story 1242 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,320 the name 'Irriducibili'. 1243 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,520 Irriducibili now is the legend. 1244 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,080 Okay? And we started, we restarted. 1245 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,360 We decide to give to the legend the name Irriducibili. 1246 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,040 But all of us are Irriducibili. 1247 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:40,600 Irriducibili never die. 1248 01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,760 But if you see, everything is about Irriducibili. 1249 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,840 This is part of the stadium, the banner inside the stadium. 1250 01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,800 When we have the name Irriducibili, 1251 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:52,520 when we have the name Irriducibili. 1252 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:53,720 Irriducibili never die. 1253 01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,840 But now we are Ultras Lazio. 1254 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,000 Yes. Okay, that's brilliant. 1255 01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,480 And it's like, in England, 1256 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,560 when we was going, we was hooligans, 1257 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,400 we was West Ham hooligans and Ultras... 1258 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,440 lots of people don't understand the word Ultra is a way of life. 1259 01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:14,600 Yeah. 1260 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,880 And is that the meaning of the word of Ultra? 1261 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,680 Because a lot of people in England don't understand 1262 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,040 what an Ultra is. 1263 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,240 It's... Is it a way of life? Is it... 1264 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,600 It's a way of life. It's not just in the stadium atmosphere. 1265 01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:33,560 In the way you live the life extremely - in everything. 1266 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,440 And to be... 1267 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,400 with a lot of courage, you know? 1268 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,880 And you beat life like that. 1269 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,040 Yeah, yeah. 1270 01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,560 And it is strange because if we went around in England 1271 01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,160 and said we was hooligans, 1272 01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,520 people look at us and they think we want to fight. 1273 01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,800 But Ultras is not necessarily mean the fighting. 1274 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:54,920 It means togetherness. 1275 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,880 Roll onto the acid house scene. 1276 01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,520 I suppose I'd come out the football trial. 1277 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,520 I'd spent quite a few years out of football on trial 1278 01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,760 and acid house had arrived, '87, '88. 1279 01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,560 So here we are, 1988 I went to... 1280 01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,800 it was one of our mate's stag-dos 1281 01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:15,720 just before that for about two or three months 1282 01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,480 I see a few of our lot Gus, Chrissy, Danny come back 1283 01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,360 and I see a change in them, a smiley face. 1284 01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,680 I know it seems mad, you know, the little bandanas 1285 01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:27,280 or a smiley face t-shirt. 1286 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,800 I was thinking 'Oh, what are these idiots? What are these?' 1287 01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,160 And 'Come on, we're all going to Future' 1288 01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,680 on a Tuesday night and then we go in the club 1289 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,760 and someone said, 'Oh, you've got to have one of these' 1290 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,520 and the next minute, I took an ecstasy tablet 1291 01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:43,800 and I see music and clubbing in a totally different world, 1292 01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,360 and I never looked back, I suppose 1293 01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:46,920 and been involved in the scene. 1294 01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,200 And he said, this is a new scene 1295 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,720 and he's trying to tell me about this rave scene. 1296 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,200 And the lads amongst us were kind of dismissive with it, 1297 01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,920 you know what I mean? It sounded like the firm's going soft 1298 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,080 and people actually said that behind his back, 1299 01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,560 you know what I mean? I was doing security for Andy, 1300 01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:06,280 and it was just me 1301 01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,520 and it was over at East Ham, and he said 1302 01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,000 him and his mate said, 'Cass, need a word with you.' 1303 01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,920 I said, 'Yeah, what's happening? What do you want?' 1304 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:23,320 He said, 'We've got maybe 50 to 100 Millwall coming over.' 1305 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,760 I said 'What? East Ham?' he said, No.' 1306 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,160 He said 'During the week we was over the Dunham Tavern, 1307 01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,840 about 20 of us and they treated us with utmost respect.' 1308 01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,160 And they said we've got to return the favour. 1309 01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,800 He said, 'So we've invited them to our rave.' 1310 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:43,080 'Are you sure? You're telling me Millwall's coming here, 1311 01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:45,360 East Ham and you ain't told me earlier, we ain't prepared? 1312 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,600 Let me get on the phone and call a few people.' 1313 01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,840 He said, 'No, no Cass, we knew you'd go like that. 1314 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:51,760 This is what we're trying to tell you.' 1315 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,200 Basically he's telling me I'm old guard, 1316 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:58,720 he's the new kid on the block in tune with everything. 1317 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,120 I'm old hat. I'm just there for security. 1318 01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,080 Don't say nothing, don't do nothing. 1319 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,440 So, we had a little bit of a disagreement over it, 1320 01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,000 in the end, I said, 'Well it's your show, alright.' 1321 01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,520 And I said, 'You're telling me don't put in a call, 1322 01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,440 alright, it's down to you two if anything...' 1323 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,320 'Trust me, Cass, nothing will happen.' 1324 01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,120 I thought, alright, we're on. 1325 01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,720 We've got a personal bet here. 1326 01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,640 And they come in and give me a little look, 1327 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,400 walk past me one by one. 1328 01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,200 Yeah, they give a little look like... you know? 1329 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:30,800 All walked in, and I thought 1330 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,440 'This is going to go tits up.' And it's on you. 1331 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,880 They kept coming up to me, having a good time 1332 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:37,400 and they weren't no trouble. 1333 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,160 I looked, I said, 'What's going on here, Andy?' 1334 01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,400 I said 'You're onto something here ain't ya?' 1335 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,040 I've never seen this. That was their firm. 1336 01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,640 He said, 'Cass, liven up, liven up. It's all changed now.' 1337 01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,200 He's already on the next move. 1338 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:52,640 It broke a lot of barriers. 1339 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,720 The rave scene broke a lot of barriers racially 1340 01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,960 and especially the football terraces 1341 01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:01,160 where you now could put Millwall and West Ham 1342 01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,720 in the same room, or Arsenal, Chelsea, 1343 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,360 everybody was there for the music and the drugs 1344 01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,520 and everything else and what was going on. 1345 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:18,160 You know, the rave scene and the fact that you could have 1346 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:22,440 20,000 kids dancing in a field somewhere in the home counties 1347 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,600 and there's not a lot that the police or the military 1348 01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,880 or anything the establishment can do about that. 1349 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,000 If you can do that within an hour basically, 1350 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,560 if you have that reach, 1351 01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,040 I think the whole power 1352 01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,680 of that house music scene, that whole collective power 1353 01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,280 was very worrying to the establishment. 1354 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:49,280 And I dunno if that has sort of added appeal or added bonus, 1355 01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,320 but I think that the worthwhile things to do in life 1356 01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,360 are things that involve upsetting the establishment. 1357 01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,280 By '89 I was working in Stratford 1358 01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,360 on the Stratford andamp; Newham Express. 1359 01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:06,240 During '88 and '89, I got kind of embroiled 1360 01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:10,240 in the acid house scenario, shall we say, 1361 01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:16,400 and had started going clubbing a lot, mainly kind of West End, 1362 01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,240 every now and then, some kind of moody rave 1363 01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:22,560 somewhere in the East End. 1364 01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,160 It's almost become cliché to say that 1365 01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,240 acid house ended football hooliganism, 1366 01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,480 but it kind of felt like that at the time. 1367 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,400 And yeah, there were probably more complex reasons 1368 01:08:37,480 --> 01:08:39,640 than that for what was happening at the time, 1369 01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,000 but it's hard to explain 1370 01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,800 how things seemed to change almost overnight. 1371 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,760 And it grew so quick. 1372 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,000 It was so quick and there was no boundaries, 1373 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,680 it was like there was no football. 1374 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,880 For the first time, it was party, music, 1375 01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,320 it broke down the football. 1376 01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,040 Eventually it kicked back when the house scene 1377 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,120 sort of evolved to clubs and the football thing came back. 1378 01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,360 I'm not saying that the football rivalry didn't happen, 1379 01:09:06,440 --> 01:09:09,720 just I wasn't involved in it. I was at parties. 1380 01:09:10,440 --> 01:09:13,560 My name's Terry Stone. I'm an actor and a film producer. 1381 01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,560 Lots of people will know me with a dodgy syrup 1382 01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,600 playing Tony Tucker in Rise Of The Footsoldier 1383 01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,960 or Jack Spot in Once Upon A Time In London. 1384 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:24,720 But I've been in obviously a host of crime films. 1385 01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,480 I've produced a host of crime films 1386 01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:30,520 and before I become Terry Stone, 1387 01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:32,080 I was called Terry Turbo 1388 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:37,640 and, you know, I sort of run most of the big dance music events 1389 01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,600 back in the day from the early nineties with One Nation, 1390 01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,120 which was a drum and bass event, jungle event, to Garage Nation, 1391 01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,600 which was obviously a UK garage that then went into grime event. 1392 01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,240 We lived on a council estate in Camberley in Surrey, 1393 01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,760 and we'd all go down into the High Street, 1394 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,240 there was a pub called the Brown Jug, 1395 01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,600 and the landlord of that pub 1396 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,800 was friends with Andy Swallow. 1397 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,120 Andy was doing, I think it was in Bow, 1398 01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:06,960 there was like a flyover, 1399 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,840 so it was some sort of weird club that was under the flyover 1400 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,080 and he said we're going to Bow in East London, 1401 01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,400 my mate Andy Swallow, and he obviously mentioned 1402 01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:17,800 the Inter-City Firm and so on, and they're doing raves. 1403 01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:19,480 And we went to this rave, 1404 01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:23,200 I met Jimmy Labello, as he's called 1405 01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:24,720 on the night, 1406 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,360 and that was my first sort of taste of the rave scene. 1407 01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,840 Echoes was kind of right next to the Bow flyover, 1408 01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:33,080 tucked away almost. 1409 01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,640 We still drive past it every now and then 1410 01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:35,840 just for old time's sake 1411 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,720 and it was very much... 1412 01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,240 it was a nice venue, 1413 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,320 but it was what I'd call at the time an ultra-disco. 1414 01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,280 It was very flash 1415 01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,440 and in 1988, what essentially had happened 1416 01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:56,120 is those clubs almost became redundant overnight 1417 01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,120 because no one wanted to go somewhere 1418 01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:00,200 that was flash-looking. 1419 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:01,720 There was a lovely club built, 1420 01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,440 you've got to think now, acid house has taken over. 1421 01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,960 The discos, dancing, the girls dancing around 1422 01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,640 with their white handbags and their white shoes are gone. 1423 01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,040 Girls dancing, looking... that had gone in the club scene. 1424 01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,280 You've got all these lovely clubs with these lovely disco lights 1425 01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:19,280 empty, didn't know what to do. 1426 01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,520 So, Echoes up the road, they started doing a Friday night. 1427 01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,200 I think we shut at two o'clock I believe, which is late for... 1428 01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,120 And they smashed it. 1429 01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:28,360 It was packed. 1430 01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:35,560 My name's Keith Mac. I'm a DJ, record producer 1431 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,000 and all-round fun guy. 1432 01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,360 I started off DJing at a pub in Dagenham called the Fiddlers. 1433 01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:48,600 I was only like... Well I was 15. 1434 01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,920 We used to be able to get in there, it was like the only pub. 1435 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,680 My mates used to hassle the manager, 'Let Keith...' 1436 01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,440 Because I always had a pack of records, 1437 01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,840 they used to have a Friday night thing there and it was rubbish. 1438 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:04,480 So, all my mates bullied the manager, 1439 01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,040 and they gave me a Wednesday night. 1440 01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:07,960 Obviously, Andy was doing all the warehouse parties, 1441 01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,760 I didn't know Andy at the time, and then he come down 1442 01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,480 one Wednesday and said, 'Look, we've got this new club, 1443 01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,160 do you want to jump on board?' 1444 01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,240 And that was Echoes on the first night. 1445 01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,200 So that Friday he picked me up and that was it. 1446 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,520 30 odd years later, I'm still here. 1447 01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,040 We started going to Echoes on a Friday night 1448 01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,280 because there was one DJ, Tony Wilson, 1449 01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:34,560 who we were all... 1450 01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,680 me and a couple of mates, were fans of 1451 01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,640 and we started going there regularly and kind of 1452 01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,080 so pretty much every Friday really, 1453 01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:44,840 we knocked the West End on the head for a while 1454 01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:46,640 and we're doing that every Friday. 1455 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,080 And then I did a Saturday night, Pasha's House 1456 01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,200 about 800-900 because not many people went on a Saturday, 1457 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,320 because there'd be raves but they'd come to us, 1458 01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,120 so Echoes on a Friday night was the one. 1459 01:12:57,480 --> 01:12:59,680 Echoes would be absolutely rammed. 1460 01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,040 There'd be dry ice everywhere. 1461 01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:02,680 You could hardly see in front of you, 1462 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,360 there'd be sweat on the walls. 1463 01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:06,760 The place would be absolutely heaving. 1464 01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,520 Right where I'm sitting now was my first party. 1465 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,960 I'd say if I had to pinpoint it, I reckon I would've been 1466 01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,480 about 200 yards over that way there. 1467 01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,640 Broke into a warehouse, got a bit of paper, 1468 01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,160 and I still see this flyer now. 1469 01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:27,400 You know the Bow flyover, we drew a line, a bridge, 1470 01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:31,760 a line, little people in cars, and a man with a stick 1471 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,600 with like a little smiley face and that was our flyer. 1472 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:35,920 Acid house party this way. 1473 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,760 We had someone on the corner guiding them in. 1474 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,880 We put something like 3000, 4000 in a warehouse down there 1475 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:46,880 from 10 o'clock at night till 11, 12 o'clock the next day. 1476 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,480 The acid house scene was brilliant because 1477 01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,640 you'd just have two lights, a strobe and a smoke machine 1478 01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,600 and a set of decks and that was it. 1479 01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,920 I think at the time, that was the Wild West era 1480 01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,240 of the rave scene, where anything went. 1481 01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,640 And I'm sure there was probably some fisticuffs between 1482 01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,640 promoters and aggravation, but I sort of looked at 1483 01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,440 what they were doing and I loved it. 1484 01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,360 People hang around people and they go, 1485 01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:14,880 'I'm going to do this.' And people go, 1486 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,560 'Yeah, you should have a go.' 1487 01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,400 And most people don't. But I was the one that did. 1488 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,280 Couple of fellas come up to us and said 1489 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,280 'Do you fancy doing a radio station?' 1490 01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:26,360 He said, 'Do you know much about it?' 1491 01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:28,400 I said, 'I know you turn it on and off.' 1492 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:30,960 And it's on a bandwidth. That's about it. 1493 01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,960 Started explaining, I said, 'Look... 1494 01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:35,400 Don't explain. How much is it going to cost?' 1495 01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:38,800 I think it was about £1,000, £1,500 quid. 1496 01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:43,040 And we set it up and we had an all-dayer in Echoes, 1497 01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:46,120 and this was on the 7th or 8th of May '89 and I said, 1498 01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,040 'Tell you what we'll do, we'll do the all-dayer, 1499 01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:49,080 we'll go off.' 1500 01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:51,600 Which was now... while I'm looking around me would be 1501 01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,320 Stoke Newington just there. 1502 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,920 We had a flat and I said we'll go and announce at the party 1503 01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,560 at 8 o'clock, we are coming on live 1504 01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,200 and as you leave the party, the all-dayer, 1505 01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,640 which was at 10 I believe, tune your cars in. 1506 01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,000 And from that it started, 1507 01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:08,080 and that's how Centreforce was launched. 1508 01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:09,600 Centreforce? From day one. 1509 01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,360 Day one, we was doing an all-dayer at Echoes. 1510 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,320 I'd finished and Andy said to me, 1511 01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:16,720 'Come on, we're going to go, 1512 01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,240 we're going to set up a radio station.' 1513 01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,920 I was like, 'I ain't got a clue.' 1514 01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,280 He said, 'Come and jump in the car.' 1515 01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:26,560 So, we drove to Shoreditch behind the fire station. 1516 01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,560 He said, 'Come, we'll go down.' So, we went down there. 1517 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:30,440 'Bring some records.' So, I brought some records 1518 01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,320 and at the time, it was in a little flat, 1519 01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,600 little radio thing like that, which would be monitors 1520 01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,240 and it was just like, alright, go on. 1521 01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:41,320 I was like, 'I don't know, we're testing it, just testing it.' 1522 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,040 And it literally was that, and then that night 1523 01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:48,160 after the party, that's more or less when Centreforce began, 1524 01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,200 you know, and that's when it started - 24 hour. 1525 01:15:56,440 --> 01:16:01,680 My name's Eric. Psychedelic Eric, and I MC and host on the radio. 1526 01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:03,840 I'd met Andy, well, I didn't actually meet him. 1527 01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,960 He knocked on my door when I was about eight, 1528 01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,160 up to mischief like he always was 1529 01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,440 and sort of saw him for the first time then. 1530 01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,200 But he did go football with my brother 1531 01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:18,000 and all that West Ham stuff a little later on. 1532 01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,560 And I think that's where I probably got the link 1533 01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:24,240 to get into Centreforce from my brother Roger. 1534 01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,640 Centreforce just sprung up out of nowhere one morning 1535 01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,160 and I was listening and I was like, 1536 01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:33,680 'What is this?' 1537 01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:36,240 I made a couple of phone calls 1538 01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,320 and the next thing I was talking to that guy over there. 1539 01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:50,560 My name's Wayne Seaton, 1540 01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,760 better known as DJ Seeker or Seeker. 1541 01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:54,360 And I'm a DJ. 1542 01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,000 I used to work for an estate agents called Seekers 1543 01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,520 and yeah, that's how I got my name. 1544 01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,280 I just thought I'd be a little bit different, and I went out 1545 01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,560 and bought, instead of everybody was using two turntables, 1546 01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,760 went and bought three, just a bit different 1547 01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,280 and just a bedroom DJ. 1548 01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,480 And then there was a couple of contacts 1549 01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,520 in terms of how we ended up going on Centreforce. 1550 01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,320 I was with a little syndicate. 1551 01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:19,640 'Corporation'. 1552 01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:23,040 We was known as the Corporation Boys or the Corporation. 1553 01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:28,280 Corporation Dave, DJ Hugs, MC Scotty, and myself, 1554 01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,440 and we went to the station. 1555 01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,560 I just thought to myself, wow, 1556 01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,200 I've got an opportunity here. 1557 01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:37,240 Went up and done a show, never done anything like it. 1558 01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:38,600 I thought, 'I love this.' 1559 01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,200 And then I had the opportunity and unfortunately 1560 01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,760 the estate agents found out because there was somebody 1561 01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,320 who kind of grassed me up in the office and told them 1562 01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:51,440 what I'd done, and they gave me the ultimatum: station or job? 1563 01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,240 I didn't tell my mum at first, but now she knows, 1564 01:17:57,440 --> 01:17:58,560 but I chose the station. 1565 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,560 I started music and that was it. 1566 01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:01,840 There was no turning back. 1567 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,280 We actually started out where I just told you. 1568 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,640 Dennison Point always comes up as Dennison Point. 1569 01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:10,720 We're literally facing Dennison Point behind us. 1570 01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,720 We were on a six-month observation. 1571 01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,240 So we thought we'd cracked it, we thought we're untouchable 1572 01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:18,600 24 hours, and that's what we become. 1573 01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:20,440 No, we were on a police observation. 1574 01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,240 They wanted to see who was coming in and out 1575 01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:24,120 and observated us for 24 1576 01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:25,800 and what they wanted to do every now and then, 1577 01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,040 they broke... because we know because the court case. 1578 01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:32,440 They raided our station to see where we moved the equipment 1579 01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,520 so they got us actually moving the equipment. 1580 01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:38,040 Hence the story of where Seeker and them was with us. 1581 01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:42,040 We was given an address to go and put up for a new, 1582 01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:45,360 basically to set up a new studio. 1583 01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:51,160 So, we was given an address and we went up to the door 1584 01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,480 and listen, kind of thing, 1585 01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,680 thought, right, okay, then this must be it. 1586 01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:58,480 And we've kicked the door, kicked the door off, 1587 01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:02,160 and there's a family eating dinner, 1588 01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,880 and they were none too pleased, but we were sort of... 1589 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:09,000 just looked at each other and we was on our toes. 1590 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:10,320 She threw everything at us. 1591 01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,440 She chased us down front the gallery, she chased us... 1592 01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,400 you know you're talking about a typical East London woman; 1593 01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:19,640 she wasn't having it, we'd ruined her Sunday lunch, 1594 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,480 she threw crockery at us and everything chasing us 1595 01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,680 all the way down, that was in Dennison Point. 1596 01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:31,440 My name's Danielle Montana. 1597 01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:35,320 I'm a DJ producer and an original DJ from Centreforce. 1598 01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:36,920 I'd heard of Andy, yeah. 1599 01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,000 At the time, who didn't? 1600 01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:41,560 He was quite a known individual. Yeah. 1601 01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:45,480 My memory's got a bit wavy as time has gone on, 1602 01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,080 but we met because someone saw me and my sister playing, 1603 01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,400 and they invited us to the radio station in its early days, 1604 01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:56,160 early weeks, they took us up to the radio station, that was it. 1605 01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,000 We got a slot on the radio, and we've been there ever since 1606 01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,240 so yeah, that's Centreforce. 1607 01:20:02,440 --> 01:20:06,360 It's quite difficult to explain how big Centreforce was. 1608 01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:12,000 How it was going all the way down to North West Kent, 1609 01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,120 South East London and beyond, 1610 01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:16,840 it seemed like to the wilds of Essex, 1611 01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,120 kind of everyone seemed to be 1612 01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,600 tuned in to Centreforce. 1613 01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:26,040 Initially, there was a certain amount of, 1614 01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:30,240 we didn't really know where it was coming from, who it was, 1615 01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,560 but suddenly during '89, 1616 01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,160 it seemed to be absolutely everywhere 1617 01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,120 and if it went off the air, 1618 01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,240 even briefly, even for a few hours, 1619 01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,160 people would be phoning each other up saying, 1620 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,880 'What happened to Centreforce, what are you listening to now?' 1621 01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,000 And it had a massive impact and it was the way 1622 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:53,960 people would find out what was going on, 1623 01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,400 even if something was on or off that night 1624 01:20:57,480 --> 01:21:01,840 and various elements like that so it was absolutely huge. 1625 01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:03,760 Woodstock 30,000. 1626 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,720 We did three days in a field, 30-odd thousand people. 1627 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,240 We hit so many people's lives in that short period 1628 01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,800 that we didn't realise that people were coming to London 1629 01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,400 taking cassette tapes up to Scotland. 1630 01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:19,120 And if I talk to everybody now, they listened to Centreforce Radio. 1631 01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,160 I must've been the most listened to radio station. 1632 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:23,560 We couldn't get no more than five miles. 1633 01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:28,040 But it's a cult thing that everybody at some point 1634 01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:30,520 in that scene was touched by Centreforce. 1635 01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,560 Those days were great, I have to say, 1636 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,960 even though we were inflicted by the law, 1637 01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,760 but we had a massive following at the time. 1638 01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,800 For at the time that we were in the birth of house 1639 01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,880 in this country, Centreforce was definitely at the forefront. 1640 01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,960 We were the first 24-hour house music station, 1641 01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,800 and it was pirate, so you always looked over your shoulder 1642 01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,720 it's not like carrying two sticks and running from the old bill. 1643 01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:00,080 It's carrying cases of vinyl. You know? 1644 01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:03,440 So yeah, I have to give them a props for what they did. 1645 01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:09,840 Can you remember when we was doing a show 1646 01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,960 and we got a call again saying that 1647 01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,560 someone's going to come to the studio. 1648 01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,240 We packed up all the gear, put it in the lift, 1649 01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:20,520 got it all in the car. 1650 01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,040 We got an address for a new studio. 1651 01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:27,240 We've gone to the new studio, before we left the old one, 1652 01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:31,760 we said, 'London, we'll be back in about 10 minutes' didn't we? 1653 01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,560 And within 15 minutes the studio was packed away in the car. 1654 01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,400 We was gone off to the next address, 1655 01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:40,240 we got to the next address, set all the music up. 1656 01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:44,160 'Hello, London, how you doing?' What did we do? 1657 01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:47,560 We went downstairs, to get the last few bits out the car. 1658 01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:50,360 There was a bobby on the beat standing there, 1659 01:22:50,440 --> 01:22:51,440 'Hello.' 1660 01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:53,880 'So, this is where Centreforce is then.' 1661 01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,400 Like that. We looked at each other, didn't we? 1662 01:22:56,480 --> 01:22:58,480 Yeah, so... 1663 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:03,680 Yeah, they got to know us. The thing is they got to know... 1664 01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,600 Especially I used to drive a distinctive vehicle 1665 01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,520 because it was a Q Reg Fiesta. 1666 01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,640 So, I used to get pulled up and they used to be like, 1667 01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,000 'Hello, Seeker.' sort of thing. 1668 01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:19,000 And I used to be like, my name's not Seeker, my name's Seaton. 1669 01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,440 And they'd be like, 'Well, your name's Seeker, 1670 01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,680 and what's the records in the back for?' 1671 01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:25,640 Turned around, 'Told you I'd gone round my mates. 1672 01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:27,920 I was playing music.' 'No, no, no, no.' 1673 01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,720 But they never ever, caught or arrested 1674 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,680 in terms of that side. 1675 01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:33,920 Near misses. 1676 01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:35,960 Yeah, no it was good times, good times there. 1677 01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,040 And then obviously when the police... 1678 01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:40,760 shut it down, it was shut down. 1679 01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:45,000 The government wanted to clamp down again, so... 1680 01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:50,240 our boys had to... so all of a sudden Seeker was the one, 1681 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,040 Seeker was the next DJ on, as he's gone to go to the studio, 1682 01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:56,600 he's listening in the car, that's how you... 1683 01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:00,640 and Hill Street Blues come on and the DTI come on, 1684 01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,720 and said, 'All you Centreforce listeners, 1685 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:04,280 this is the last time... 1686 01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,280 This is the last record from Centreforce,' 1687 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,520 and they played Hill Street Blues, cheeky gits, 1688 01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,760 and they played that and they shut us down, 1689 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,280 took all our equipment and then we all got arrested. 1690 01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,120 I was arrested at the Pink Toothbrush. 1691 01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:20,160 I come out three days later, I went to a block of flats 1692 01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,960 and came on and put the Dixon of Dock Green on 1693 01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:24,480 and said we're back. 1694 01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:26,400 And that didn't go down well. 1695 01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,800 And then they just come down again, 1696 01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:30,600 they ripped our station down again 1697 01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:32,520 and after about the 5th attempt we just thought, 1698 01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:34,160 we can't go nowhere. 1699 01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,320 So, all that hard work to be kicked back 1700 01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,240 and now, which is weird when I do this... 1701 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,520 It's quite sentimental because when I look at it, 1702 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,400 I think we left such an impact. 1703 01:24:45,480 --> 01:24:47,760 What could we have done if they'd left us alone? 1704 01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:49,600 We might have been dead now, 1705 01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,640 we might not have been a radio station. 1706 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:57,160 But we had the same again, which is sad. 1707 01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:02,360 I might just say it; They can't do me anymore. 1708 01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,360 The government, the bodies above 1709 01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:07,760 just never wanted us to do anything. That's it. 1710 01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,440 You know, the funny thing about the Tory government 1711 01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:20,360 of the time being so anti-acid house 1712 01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,800 is that in some respects 1713 01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,720 it was kind of quite Thatcherite 1714 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,760 in its celebration of entrepreneurial characters 1715 01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:35,360 and individuals who managed to essentially do 1716 01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:37,520 what Thatcher had been telling them, 1717 01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,440 and the Tories had been telling them to do, 1718 01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,920 which was to get off their arse, go and do something, 1719 01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:46,320 go set up your own business and make a success of it 1720 01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:47,920 and that's what these people did. 1721 01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:50,720 Yeah, I think when you come from a working class background, 1722 01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:55,320 you move into any kind of activity, 1723 01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:58,400 any industry like the music industry, 1724 01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:05,080 they are businesses and they have a kind of hierarchy 1725 01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,960 and expectation of how you behave and how you negotiate. 1726 01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,560 They don't really like people making their own rules 1727 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:14,120 and doing it in their terms. 1728 01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:18,200 So it is a very difficult environment to break into. 1729 01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:22,440 I think Britain's a very class dominated society 1730 01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:27,960 and it is run by a certain class of people who 1731 01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:31,160 went to certain schools and have these connections 1732 01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:33,320 and have the wealth and money behind them 1733 01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:37,000 that makes the consequences of their failure 1734 01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,360 less drastic than it does for someone 1735 01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:41,080 from a working class background. 1736 01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:46,360 So it is a whole different thing to break into that 1737 01:26:46,440 --> 01:26:49,960 when you don't come from that kind of elite background. 1738 01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,680 'What about making a record? We could do this.' 1739 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,680 And we went off to a studio and we made a record. 1740 01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:57,640 And from that I ended up 1741 01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,960 meeting Jimmy Low and we ended up... 1742 01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:02,960 they a massive track called Made In Two Minutes. 1743 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:07,000 I had a group which was with Danny's mum and Keith Mac, 1744 01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:08,360 and we was New Class A. 1745 01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:12,520 We PA'd with The Prodigy, Shades Of Rhythm, M People. 1746 01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,040 We was all on the scene together and I set up a record label. 1747 01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,560 Put out 56 records in the first year, 1748 01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:21,000 which just over one a week. 1749 01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:46,360 We're one of the top dance labels out there. 1750 01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:49,560 The name in the square, Labello Blanco Recordings. 1751 01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:51,120 The reason we've got the name: 1752 01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,440 Labello meaning label, Blanco: white. 1753 01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:58,320 It was supposed to be Italian meaning white label, 1754 01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,960 that's what we are, we're a white label independent company 1755 01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:02,720 and we put the square to box it off 1756 01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:04,480 and it's been really effective for us. 1757 01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:11,080 My name's David Low. 1758 01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,400 I'm a DJ producer for Artful Dodger and Platinum Breaks. 1759 01:28:19,480 --> 01:28:21,720 I met Andy through my brother. 1760 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,760 My brother was a rapper Jimmy with Bug Kann andamp; The Plastic Jam. 1761 01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,000 Andy was New Class A. 1762 01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:29,520 They used to do the gigs together 1763 01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:32,000 and they started the record label, Labello Blanco. 1764 01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:34,360 And I thought I was a bit of a rapper, 12 years old. 1765 01:28:34,440 --> 01:28:37,240 So I met Andy back then as long ago as that. 1766 01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:40,080 Jimmy used to take me to his house and stuff in Dagenham 1767 01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:41,360 back in the day. 1768 01:28:41,480 --> 01:28:45,520 They was doing all the big raves, illegal raves together. 1769 01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,960 They met getting the studio together 1770 01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:50,480 and then I think they started the label. 1771 01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:53,480 Andy started Labello Blanco and Jimmy joined. 1772 01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:58,120 Andy at the time, he would obviously do his records, 1773 01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,080 white labels, or dub plates, 1774 01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:03,440 and then people would play them out 1775 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,440 and then obviously people would record them, they'd put them out 1776 01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:08,360 and then people would go into record shops 1777 01:29:08,440 --> 01:29:11,440 with a tape or the CD and go, what is that track? 1778 01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:13,120 Oh, it's Labello Blanco. 1779 01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:15,360 And then Andy would be like, 'Fucking hell, 1780 01:29:15,440 --> 01:29:18,840 we just released that, we've sold 50,000 fucking records.' 1781 01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:22,400 Me and Andy, we had a band called New Class A back in '91 1782 01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,240 then we started setting up the record label Labello. 1783 01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:28,440 Labello Dance... I had Labello Dance, 1784 01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:30,920 which was more house sort of stuff. 1785 01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:32,480 And then we had the 'Public Demand.' 1786 01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,840 And then I found the real crooks. 1787 01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,440 Oh mate. 1788 01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:40,800 If I have to lie, I'm not going to call him a crook 1789 01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:43,600 because I'm going to tell you about the industry's crooked. 1790 01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,640 But if you want to meet someone who is so... 1791 01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:49,720 how can I say it? I'm not going to say... 1792 01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:53,120 I actually like him, 1793 01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,680 so I don't want to make him sound bad. 1794 01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,840 Let's just say that someone who took your business 1795 01:29:57,920 --> 01:29:59,720 quite quickly was Pete Waterman. 1796 01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:01,680 I did two and a half years with Pete. 1797 01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:03,800 He taught me everything. 1798 01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:09,720 I did work experience at the label when they was at PWL. 1799 01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:13,960 A good two weeks of my life, that was. 1800 01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:20,360 Eventful, then when I was 17, left school, Andy and Jimmy 1801 01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:23,320 gave me a job at the label at Labello Blanco - Public Demand. 1802 01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,000 Keith Mac will say I was tea-boy at the record label 1803 01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:27,800 when I first started. 1804 01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,000 But yeah, Andy and Jimmy gave me the chance 1805 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:32,080 at the record label 1806 01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:33,920 and I've been in the music game ever since. 1807 01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:35,720 Yeah, I just learned the business as I was there. 1808 01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:37,520 I mean, I started there when I was 17 1809 01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:42,240 all the way up to 24, 25, 26. 1810 01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:46,200 So, a good 10 years, 11, 12 years at the record company. 1811 01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,360 You just learn how the business works, 1812 01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,680 what better people to learn from than Andy and my brother? 1813 01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:53,920 Love to hate him. 1814 01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,600 He's brilliant and I learned from the best. 1815 01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,080 I did a few months with Simon Cowell, 1816 01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,040 but I did two and a half years me, Keith and him. 1817 01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:07,560 Unbelievable at what he did and done. 1818 01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:09,800 So he kicked his managing director out of his office. 1819 01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:13,360 Gave us that, gave us recording studios, gave us free rent, 1820 01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:17,440 he gave us advanced money to do music. 1821 01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:21,040 He gave us free studio... Well, he gave us studio time, 1822 01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,240 nothing's free with Pete, which we work out down the line 1823 01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:26,840 and he guided us a lot. 1824 01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:30,600 Yeah, I had a lot of arguments with him 1825 01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:34,040 but what a character, what a person to learn off of. 1826 01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,240 Well, we signed Artful Dodger's first record, 1827 01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,080 What You Going To Do with Craig David, 1828 01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:42,160 which was a big UK... it was a big underground hit. 1829 01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:46,240 Then they brought us Rewind, but no DJs would play it. 1830 01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:48,280 You have these things cut called dub plates 1831 01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:50,200 and we got 'em cut for DJs and was giving 'em out 1832 01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,160 to DJs and Mikey B from the Dream Team come back and said, 1833 01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:55,840 there's too many Rewind parts in the track. 1834 01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:57,840 So we took the middle one out 1835 01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,720 and then Rewind then become a massive underground 1836 01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,640 and then obviously a massive chart success, 1837 01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:07,760 went number two in the national charts and it was amazing 1838 01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,040 to be around that and a part of that at the time, 1839 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:11,400 we'd never obviously had... 1840 01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:14,360 the record label never had a number two record before. 1841 01:32:14,440 --> 01:32:16,520 We'd had a couple of tunes that had charted back in the day, 1842 01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:19,160 but nothing of this magnitude. 1843 01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:23,120 I had Craig David, and put out Ms Dynamite 'Booo!' 1844 01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:26,080 Artful Dodger is still mine, well, 1845 01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:28,600 I say mine it's still under our umbrella as such. 1846 01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,760 At the time, because I loved music, 1847 01:32:32,480 --> 01:32:35,000 obviously I was hearing about this garage movement, 1848 01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:39,520 and that's obviously when Andy and Jimmy was obviously 1849 01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:42,120 building up their record label 1850 01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:44,160 and they were doing some 1851 01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:46,040 big things with Artful Dodger and people like that. 1852 01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:48,560 And I think at that time when you... 1853 01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:52,080 I just remember people saying, 'Have you heard this garage?' 1854 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:54,600 Yeah we had some... it was some good times. 1855 01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,640 Went to some good events, had some good parties from it. 1856 01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:00,600 And then we had some other successful hits after that 1857 01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,760 from Woman Trouble to Miss Dynamite - Booo! 1858 01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:05,800 and then the whole Artful Dodger album came, 1859 01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:08,120 I think there was seven top 10 hits from the one album. 1860 01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:12,840 Done 1.5 million, and then we did Artful Dodger. 1861 01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:17,640 We done three of Craig's tracks, Jungle Massive albums. 1862 01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,240 Yeah, and become a force within... 1863 01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:23,920 become one of the biggest drum andamp; bass labels, 1864 01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:25,440 which is Labello Blanco. 1865 01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:27,720 And we've become one of the biggest in the top five 1866 01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,720 of big garage labels, which was Public Demand. 1867 01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:34,480 I did the music from 1992, 1868 01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,120 '91, '92, 1869 01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:39,200 right through to the 2000s, 1870 01:33:39,480 --> 01:33:40,880 2002, 2003, 1871 01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:44,520 lost my love for the music. 1872 01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:48,040 Just become too political, too dark, 1873 01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:51,280 too moody, too many fights. 1874 01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:53,920 I could do that at football let alone going to a nightclub. 1875 01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:01,720 I'm Danny Swallow, 1876 01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:03,960 Master Pasha, some people might know me as 1877 01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,000 I'm one of the owners of Centreforce Radio, 1878 01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,240 I'm Andy's son, Mr Pasha's son, 1879 01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,360 the original, the founder of Centreforce, 1880 01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:12,840 and I'm the one that's in control today. 1881 01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:16,000 December '17, we'd been running... 1882 01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:18,480 a friend of mine's daughter, 1883 01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,200 she has cancer so we was trying to raise money for her, 1884 01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:22,760 we thought we'd do a party. 1885 01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,360 Bring back all the... How that came about, 1886 01:34:26,440 --> 01:34:29,360 I don't know, but we had the Centreforce Facebook page 1887 01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:31,480 so we was like let's run a Facebook live video' 1888 01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:34,800 and Majestic, another good friend of ours, 1889 01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:38,200 he was like, 'Look, I know how to set it up on Facebook live.' 1890 01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:40,440 So, we ran it every day for a week 1891 01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:43,480 and in that week, we did over a million views. 1892 01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:47,480 And I was like, 'Wow!' 1893 01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:51,120 There are still people my age and older going out 1894 01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:54,800 and doing the same thing they were doing in 1988, '89, '90, 1895 01:34:55,280 --> 01:35:00,600 maybe not as late or as heavily, but they're still doing it. 1896 01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:04,240 And it's never really left people, it's always stayed there. 1897 01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:08,200 That feeling, the idea of the joyous nature 1898 01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:11,320 of an uplifting nature of house music, 1899 01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:13,160 bringing people together, 1900 01:35:13,480 --> 01:35:15,200 that's had a real impact on people, 1901 01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:17,360 and they've never forgotten that. 1902 01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:19,520 So, when it came back, 1903 01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:23,200 it just felt as if, 1904 01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,840 yeah, everyone would say Centreforce, 88.3. 1905 01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:28,840 There was this idea 1906 01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:32,400 and I think that's never left people. 1907 01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,000 So, we were like, 'Look, let's keep the ball rolling 1908 01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:36,680 and keep the momentum flowing,' 1909 01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:38,960 and when we did that 1910 01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:43,960 it just became, slowly but surely, the interaction was mad, 1911 01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:49,480 we had 32,000 likes, 12,000 shares and comments. 1912 01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:53,400 It was ridiculous, it was like pirate on Facebook. 1913 01:35:53,480 --> 01:35:55,120 That's exactly what it was like. 1914 01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:56,760 Like with the old pager days. 1915 01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:58,760 And when... 1916 01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:02,200 I remember, we was doing it for a long time, 1917 01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:05,000 a good couple of months, and when we did it, 1918 01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:09,600 we never got cut off, never got any interruptions, 1919 01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:11,200 never got any copyright issues 1920 01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:13,600 it was almost like we was ahead of the game. 1921 01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:14,960 When Facebook came knocking, 1922 01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:17,560 I don't think he would've been shy about that one 1923 01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,240 because it's just like... 1924 01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:24,520 you have to have the good sense to realise what's there. 1925 01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:28,320 You don't want to be some sort of 1926 01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:30,880 curator of your own existence. 1927 01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,480 You can't be kind of mired in that kind of nostalgia. 1928 01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:37,080 Things do move on irrespective of what you believe 1929 01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:38,520 or how you want them to. 1930 01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:43,520 And I think that you have to try to be sort of conversant 1931 01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:45,920 with opportunities as they actually exist. 1932 01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:49,560 We were streaming via Facebook, it was video, 1933 01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,560 it was just us with music playing, 1934 01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:53,640 don't get me wrong, we had good sound quality, 1935 01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:54,960 we always have, always will. 1936 01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:56,720 And we were just interacting with the people 1937 01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,280 because the messages would come up live, 1938 01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:02,640 so we were just shouting them out and it was great, 1939 01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:05,120 my dad said it was as close to pirate as we will ever get, 1940 01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:07,560 as close to the good old days as we'll ever get. 1941 01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:12,880 And that led to something crazy happening, 1942 01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,400 my dad was out in Tenerife, 1943 01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,360 we'd just finished a live stream with Keith Mac 1944 01:37:20,440 --> 01:37:23,200 funnily enough, we did our one millionth view show. 1945 01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:26,360 It blew up. We broke a million in the first 10 minutes 1946 01:37:26,440 --> 01:37:28,880 and it was just incredible. 1947 01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:31,760 He's roped me back into it after I left it all. 1948 01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:33,720 I was like, 'No, no!' 1949 01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:35,480 And he started doing the Facebook thing again. 1950 01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:37,480 'Oh come on.' I'm like, 'No, I don't want to do it.' 1951 01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:39,200 'I've done my thing with you.' 1952 01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:41,840 And then he slowly gets hold of ya and then bang, 1953 01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:43,680 you're back into it all. The chaos again. 1954 01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:47,520 Centreforce finished, you saw all this emergence 1955 01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:50,320 of all these other radio stations, pirate stations popping up. 1956 01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:51,840 So, they did lead the way. 1957 01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:53,760 They were the forerunners. 1958 01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,560 So, it was only inevitable, even though decades later, 1959 01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:57,840 that we came back. 1960 01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,120 Daniel Bunter and them, they do his thing where you go down 1961 01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:03,280 and you do a talk, do a seminar, so I'm sitting on stage 1962 01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:06,280 and there was someone who's got a real frequency FM, 1963 01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,400 they've done really well, and they started talking about DAB. 1964 01:38:09,480 --> 01:38:11,280 I was like, 'What's that?' 1965 01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:14,240 So, I turned around to him, 'What's DAB?' 1966 01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:16,760 'Digital Auto Band.' It's a new form of FM 1967 01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:18,480 but it ain't so hard to get on it. 1968 01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:20,640 I come out and I said, so I've answered all these questions, 1969 01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:22,480 everybody wants to know about Centreforce, 1970 01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:23,840 they want to know about Centreforce, 1971 01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:25,400 so I came out and I said to Danny, 1972 01:38:25,480 --> 01:38:27,880 'DAB, what's DAB? Have a look at it.' 1973 01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:30,960 Not many people knew about it so, 1974 01:38:31,480 --> 01:38:34,080 we applied for a license... 1975 01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:37,360 We applied for a space first of all with the DAB body. 1976 01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:41,600 And we got in touch with the people who run Essex Multiplex. 1977 01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:45,840 We got in touch and got chatting and we was ready to go. 1978 01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:49,040 They were like, 'One final thing, 1979 01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:51,320 you need to get your license from Ofcom.' 1980 01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:53,320 I was like, 'Oh here we go.' 1981 01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:57,200 So, I literally spent 3 months filling out the application 1982 01:38:57,480 --> 01:38:59,880 getting everything set, getting it right, making sure 1983 01:38:59,960 --> 01:39:04,040 I was on point as a person applying for a license 1984 01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:07,040 because at the end of the day, I'm the license holder, 1985 01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:10,000 Centreforce has the license but I'm the license holder. 1986 01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:11,280 I'm the one responsible. 1987 01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:13,000 You swear on air? 1988 01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:14,240 Comes down to me. 1989 01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,160 Or you break the rules, it's my fault 1990 01:39:17,240 --> 01:39:19,840 because I'm the license holder, I'm the person responsible. 1991 01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:21,760 So I made sure everything was right, 1992 01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:24,080 but during that 3 month period, 1993 01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,160 it was like I was sitting there one day 1994 01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,280 with my dad and I was like, 1995 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:33,000 'Why don't we try and get on the London one, let's see.' 1996 01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:37,640 Probably one of the best things that happened is 1997 01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:40,320 I went to Tenerife, 1998 01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:41,800 and I said, 1999 01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:44,320 'You go and get a licence and we'll do it.' And he did. 2000 01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:46,960 And people say to me, 'Oh, you know...' 2001 01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:50,720 You got to remember, he's 27... 2002 01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:51,920 26, 27. 2003 01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:56,120 And he's got the whole of a radio station on his shoulders. 2004 01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:57,800 That's some achievement. 2005 01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:01,040 People do look at me and go, it's your radio station. 2006 01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:06,520 Historically, it's my radio station. Not today. 2007 01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:07,840 No. 2008 01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:11,000 Yeah, it's a big thing to do. Yeah. 2009 01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:13,440 I'll let you off on that one, Dan. 2010 01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:16,480 It was the wait that felt like 3 years 2011 01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:18,240 but it was like 6 weeks really, 2012 01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:20,280 for Ofcom to come back with their decision 2013 01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:21,720 regarding our license 2014 01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:26,160 and the day they gave me my license 2015 01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:28,800 I remember crying for about an hour. 2016 01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,440 It was five years ago, he went off and got a licence. 2017 01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:34,880 I don't know how he done it. He did. 2018 01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:36,960 And I remember meeting the DAB people 2019 01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:40,400 and they looked at me and went, 'You can't have one.' 2020 01:40:40,480 --> 01:40:43,960 They were laughing, he went, 'You can't have one, you can.' 2021 01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:47,840 And they took a chance with us, and it just flew. 2022 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:51,320 I was like, 'We got our DAB license!' 2023 01:40:51,400 --> 01:40:55,760 And literally from that day 2024 01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:58,320 I said, 'I can't believe what we've done.' 2025 01:40:58,400 --> 01:41:00,640 He was like, 'You can't believe what you've done?' 2026 01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,440 'You ain't done nothing yet, you've got a license, 2027 01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,240 now the real work starts.' 2028 01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:08,200 I was like - yeah, you're right. 2029 01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:11,960 I've got 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 2030 01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:17,120 equipment, I've got shows to fill, DJs, presenters. 2031 01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,480 Every single thing, I had to go and get, 2032 01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,240 and I had a go live date in 6 months. 2033 01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:24,440 They called me and said, 2034 01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,560 'Do you want to go live in 2 weeks?' 2035 01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:29,280 And I was like, 'Yeah go on then.' 2036 01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:34,200 And then phoned my dad, I said, 'We're going live in 2 weeks.' 2037 01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,000 He was like, 'I'm on holiday, I'm in Tenerife for 6 weeks. 2038 01:41:37,080 --> 01:41:38,200 What are you talking about?' 2039 01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:40,240 I was like, 'No you got to come back, we're going live.' 2040 01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:51,000 Just as Centreforce was about to come back, 2041 01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:55,720 I'd realised I couldn't really earn any money here anymore. 2042 01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,360 You're ducking and diving for so... 2043 01:41:58,440 --> 01:42:00,920 you can only duck and dive for so long. 2044 01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,360 I come out of the music industry that I didn't like. 2045 01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:06,200 I've done the Craig David stuff and that 2046 01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:09,160 and I just, I've always had affiliation with Tenerife. 2047 01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:12,080 I've always had businesses there, and we already had a bar there. 2048 01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:18,800 I'm Donna and I'm from London, Chingford. 2049 01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:20,920 Me and Andy met at The Academy 2050 01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:23,480 in Langston Road in Loughton. 2051 01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:25,640 He started hitting on me straight away. 2052 01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,000 Oh it was a few years before I turned to Mrs. Swallow. 2053 01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:31,400 We got married in 2016. I met him in 2007. 2054 01:42:31,480 --> 01:42:33,640 So marriage wasn't really on the cards, 2055 01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,120 but then when we had Amelia, kind of changed things 2056 01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,760 and I thought - I wanted her to be the same name as me. 2057 01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:40,840 So just one family. 2058 01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,360 She's 12 now, Amelia. Yes, going on 21. 2059 01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,120 It's all pros coming out here. It's great for Amelia. 2060 01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:49,040 She can go to the beach every day. 2061 01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:51,040 She's horse-riding. 2062 01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:52,600 We're in the sun constantly, 2063 01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:54,920 you wake up happy when you're in the sun, don't you? 2064 01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:56,600 With us, we've boomed. 2065 01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:58,840 We started off with one business, now we've got four. 2066 01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:01,920 So yeah, we just keep going and see how we get. 2067 01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:05,400 He started from what most people start with, not a lot 2068 01:43:05,480 --> 01:43:07,800 and he's worked his way up, but he's struggled to do that. 2069 01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:09,440 He's been knocked down quite a few times, 2070 01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,000 but he's always come back up on top. 2071 01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:13,880 So he's come a long way and he's done well. 2072 01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:17,040 I went there to retire. 2073 01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:19,520 As soon as I arrived, I got an opportunity 2074 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,760 to open up another bar with some backers from the UK, 2075 01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:26,120 which was Joyce, which we did. 2076 01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:28,960 And then we got the radio station there 2077 01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:30,920 and we've now opened up Rejoyce 2078 01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:34,640 and we've now opened up Centreforce FM on the Canaries. 2079 01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:36,640 So, we've got Centreforce out there as well, 2080 01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:38,920 which plays the music from here and from Canaries. 2081 01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:41,400 To get the licence was one thing, 2082 01:43:41,480 --> 01:43:43,520 but then to open the doors and broadcast 2083 01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:45,280 and still be on now 2084 01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:49,280 six years later, it's nothing short of incredible. 2085 01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:53,640 And the way that we did it in such a destructive manner, 2086 01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:56,120 I mean we never even did a marketing campaign. 2087 01:43:56,200 --> 01:43:57,600 We was like, we're here. 2088 01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:01,440 And I think the way that the brand's grown so naturally 2089 01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:03,760 through word of mouth and through people just getting 2090 01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:07,440 back in touch, that was out raving back in the day, 2091 01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:11,520 I think that it's a real positive story and it's a real story 2092 01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,240 that you can't help but fall in love with. 2093 01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:18,080 That was the major thing for me was grounding the business 2094 01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:20,720 and making sure that we stay true to our roots. 2095 01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,560 I mean we say it all the time - from the streets of East London, 2096 01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:25,920 we don't get much more real than that. You know what I mean? 2097 01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:27,520 They always had shoutouts back in the day 2098 01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:30,720 and it was via a pager and I can't imagine. 2099 01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:33,960 So, I think now the fact that modern technology's evolved, 2100 01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:36,880 we're able to access the messaging system 2101 01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:38,400 anywhere in the world. 2102 01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:40,840 When we're broadcasting from Australia or New York 2103 01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:43,680 or Chicago or right here in Tenerife. 2104 01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:47,640 Being able to take that Centreforce family around the world with me 2105 01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:48,960 is the most important thing. 2106 01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:51,040 This is all fantastic, but if we couldn't 2107 01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:52,680 bring the Centreforce family here 2108 01:44:52,760 --> 01:44:54,440 and couldn't have the messages live, 2109 01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:56,080 we wouldn't be doing the shows from here. 2110 01:44:56,200 --> 01:45:00,400 I think that's why Centreforce will stay and will forever be 2111 01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:02,360 the biggest station 2112 01:45:02,440 --> 01:45:04,280 is because we are by the people 2113 01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:06,760 and we are for the people. That's it. 2114 01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:08,840 Like everything we do, I'm always 2115 01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:10,960 my first concern is our Centreforce family. 2116 01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:13,320 Before making money and before making 2117 01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:15,840 the business successful, the family have got to be happy, 2118 01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:17,880 if they're not happy then we've got nothing. 2119 01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:21,920 I've got an extremely talented roster of DJs, 2120 01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:23,840 some of the biggest names in the industry, 2121 01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:26,520 and without those guys, we wouldn't be what it is. 2122 01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:31,840 I'm Micky Moore. Tenerife and Essex, London originally. 2123 01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:34,320 My name's Benno, I'm from Manchester originally, 2124 01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:36,400 but lived in Tenerife most my life. 2125 01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:40,240 I was a product of the care system, I was in care in Essex, 2126 01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:44,600 so in the '60s, been in schools and all that. 2127 01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:49,160 And then '75, a friend of mine, Andy's friend Grant, 2128 01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:51,840 moved to Essex and we had a little gang 2129 01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:56,040 used to muck around, football, causing havoc. 2130 01:45:56,240 --> 01:46:00,320 So about 1976, Grant introduced us to Andy. 2131 01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:01,840 Andy moved to Southend. 2132 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,600 So we ended up going to Southend, meet up with Andy. 2133 01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:09,320 I found a family in my football club, my mates, 2134 01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:11,240 we're like companions. 2135 01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:12,960 It was always there. 2136 01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,720 Know what I mean, doing things together, weren't just football. 2137 01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:19,160 We'd go youth clubs, we'd go parties and we'd be in music. 2138 01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:21,440 I hadn't seen Andy for a few years, you know what I mean? 2139 01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:22,760 Not since Echoes days. 2140 01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:26,400 He said, 'The radio's back on again, we're doing the radio. 2141 01:46:26,480 --> 01:46:28,880 Got this studio, got this...' He was selling me it. 2142 01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:30,440 You know? And I'm like, what? 2143 01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:32,240 It was pirate before, you know what I mean? 2144 01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:33,640 Used to listen to this and... 2145 01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:36,080 'No, no, we've got this, we've got this, we've got that.' 2146 01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:38,000 He said, 'Come down.' I'm always welcome. 2147 01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:41,560 So I'll give a mooch, I'll have a look, see what's going on. 2148 01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:44,440 And then after that we just met again for the party. 2149 01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:47,720 Went to that, started going to the studio. 2150 01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:50,000 We used to go down just to see Andy 2151 01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:52,200 go and see him, everyone come down to his show. 2152 01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:55,160 So we used to go down there, muck around, 20 of us. 2153 01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:58,280 And then one day he was like, 'Just help us out, Micky.' 2154 01:46:58,360 --> 01:46:59,320 I went, 'What?' 2155 01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:02,040 He went, 'Just write this down, these messages.' 2156 01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:04,840 Done it once, got the job. 2157 01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:11,480 I met Andy through my old man who introduced me to him. 2158 01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:15,080 And at the time I was only DJing in another club over here 2159 01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,760 one or two days a week, trying to get my break. 2160 01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:20,800 It was more a bit of fun to be honest. 2161 01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:25,440 And then Andy gave me a few shifts early on in Joyce's, 2162 01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:28,160 his club on the Las Americas Strip. 2163 01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:31,040 As time went on, he slowly started giving me more nights 2164 01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:34,080 and then eventually he made me the resident DJ 2165 01:47:34,160 --> 01:47:37,000 and I've been there now two years. 2166 01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:40,160 And obviously you meet all the Centreforce lot in there. 2167 01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:41,640 They come in a lot. 2168 01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:45,240 And I've done a few shows with the likes of Max Fernandez. 2169 01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:46,240 They are like a family. 2170 01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,240 You can't call 'em a community. Everyone's so nice. 2171 01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:53,520 I've not met anyone that's like... yeah, it's good, it's great. 2172 01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:55,720 Shout outs is all what he's about on Centreforce. 2173 01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:58,160 It's never going to change. That's how we started. 2174 01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:00,600 Shout outs is how it is. 2175 01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,000 No playlist, play what we want. 2176 01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:04,320 And that's how it is. 2177 01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:08,040 It just makes people feel part of, it's like a family thing. 2178 01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:11,720 It's not like mainstream radio. We interact with the people. 2179 01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:16,000 There's so many people just sending in every two seconds. 2180 01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:20,640 So it's massive and I think to them as a community 2181 01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:22,520 as well, it's such a big thing. 2182 01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:26,880 They listen to it, some people like 12, 13 hours a day. 2183 01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:28,840 So to hear their names shouted out I think 2184 01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:32,800 is such a big thing from them, from their favourite DJs. 2185 01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:36,680 See some of the DJs on there were massive in the '90s, 2186 01:48:36,760 --> 01:48:38,880 like the biggest names you could. 2187 01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:43,240 So to them I think it's a really big thing and important. 2188 01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:47,560 And I think me leaving the country and coming here, 2189 01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,440 he had to flourish because with me being there, 2190 01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,280 it probably wouldn't have grown as big as it would've been because 2191 01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:56,560 it's either my way or no way. 2192 01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,520 Yeah? And they ignored me. 2193 01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:04,080 He's taken some convincing. 2194 01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:06,680 We nearly had fights. Don't worry about that. 2195 01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:08,840 We've nearly had stand up fights with each other. 2196 01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:11,400 The thing is that we're father and son, but we're best mates. 2197 01:49:11,480 --> 01:49:14,520 So we argue, we fight, but at the end of the day, 2198 01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:15,920 we do it for the right reasons. 2199 01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,760 We're not just standing there and arguing for no reason. 2200 01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:20,480 It's both because we care so much. 2201 01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:23,120 Seeing what I've done with his legacy 2202 01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:27,840 and it's now being able to pass our legacy to my son. 2203 01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:31,880 And then if we can, like you said, if Centreforce 2204 01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,320 is still around in 60 years' time and he's still popping in 2205 01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:35,880 and doing his Monday show, 2206 01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:39,400 then nothing would make me happier than to have my son, 2207 01:49:39,480 --> 01:49:42,040 me and my dad all on a radio station together. 2208 01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:43,520 I mean, who wouldn't want that? 2209 01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:46,200 The radio brings everybody together and I think 2210 01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:48,280 as long as we can always keep that passion, 2211 01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:51,160 keep that - we are the same as you. 2212 01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:54,280 If you do feel down and a little bit lonely, talk to somebody, 2213 01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:56,360 talk to the radio, send a message in. 2214 01:49:56,520 --> 01:49:58,080 We'll always get back to you. 2215 01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:01,040 That's the difference with Centreforce is that 2216 01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:03,920 we set up with a mission to become the station, 2217 01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:06,400 to provide information to people. 2218 01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,520 We took that one step beyond them, when now 2219 01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:12,560 that voice in the room where that little person 2220 01:50:12,640 --> 01:50:15,360 that when you're feeling low, you flick on the radio 2221 01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:18,560 and you get greeted with a welcoming voice, 2222 01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:20,320 a load of good music... 2223 01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:21,520 And Justin Childs. 2224 01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:24,960 And sometimes Justin Childs and Micky Moore, sometimes! 2225 01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:26,320 Forgot about him too! 2226 01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:29,080 Yeah, definitely having a family and having that. 2227 01:50:29,160 --> 01:50:31,520 That's the reason why we're doing this now. 2228 01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:33,320 And Centreforce is the family. 2229 01:50:33,400 --> 01:50:34,240 Yeah, that's it. 2230 01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:35,280 You're our family. 2231 01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:36,320 Welcome to the family. 2232 01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:38,240 That's it. 2233 01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:40,720 Last year we took the brand to Liverpool, 2234 01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:43,600 we took the brand to Stoke, all around the UK, 2235 01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:48,120 to get as much love when you go to a new city, new town, 2236 01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:51,760 it's just mad, I mean, this year, by the time this comes out, 2237 01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:53,400 we'll have announced all the plans 2238 01:50:53,480 --> 01:50:55,480 taking the brand to Dubai this year, 2239 01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:58,200 we're taking the brand to Ibiza, around the world. 2240 01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:00,800 And when we go to these places, 2241 01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:03,160 the reception is no different. 2242 01:51:03,240 --> 01:51:05,640 You get welcomed with open arms 2243 01:51:05,720 --> 01:51:08,480 and everybody's just buzzing to have a bit of time. 2244 01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:12,320 But how about here? We've set up Centreforce Canarias. 2245 01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:15,520 We've been on something like four months and we're now 2246 01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:19,640 going to be playing main stage 100,000 . 2247 01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:21,360 There'll be about 400,000 people there, 2248 01:51:21,440 --> 01:51:24,600 but the main stage about 100,000 Centreforce takeover, 2249 01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:25,880 that's never happened. 2250 01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:29,080 We've now come to a point where we feel we are ready 2251 01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:33,040 to come back into the record label in a different format 2252 01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,400 and Danny and them have now set up a whole way of 2253 01:51:36,480 --> 01:51:40,080 doing music, record labels, and we will be back. 2254 01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:42,120 Dan. You've got it. 2255 01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,880 This year, launching in May. 2256 01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:47,400 So by the time this is out, all going to be ready. 2257 01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,680 883 Records, Centreforce Records. 2258 01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:52,240 We've got five subdivisions underneath that. 2259 01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:55,520 One of 'em, which taking heritage, taking inspiration 2260 01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:58,800 from something that my dad created, 883 Rewind. 2261 01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:01,000 It's going to be taking you on a journey through everything 2262 01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:03,720 house, garage, and really reviving 2263 01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:05,880 giving that scene the kick up the arse like it needs. 2264 01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:09,560 If you look at a lot of the people that 2265 01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,280 around my dad's generation and look at 'em now, 2266 01:52:12,360 --> 01:52:14,080 they was all underdogs in their own right. 2267 01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:15,360 Nobody wanted them to succeed. 2268 01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:17,280 There was nobody giving them handouts. 2269 01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:19,120 There was nobody helping them along their way 2270 01:52:19,200 --> 01:52:20,760 or showing them a direction like I've had. 2271 01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:24,640 Him, for me, he's the biggest inspiration, 2272 01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:27,440 the biggest reason that I do what I do, 2273 01:52:28,040 --> 01:52:29,320 it's because of him. 2274 01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:32,800 There's only one real true underdog. 2275 01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:34,120 That's my old man. 2276 01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:39,120 We're just happy here in the sun, pop down to the beach, 2277 01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:41,720 pop to the bars, have a couple of drinks, 2278 01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:45,080 have some nice dinner, tapas, and it's just a nice life. 2279 01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,840 I think the interesting thing about, as opposed to 2280 01:52:50,920 --> 01:52:53,440 most of the top guys from all kinds of clubs 2281 01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:54,680 from that era 2282 01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:56,840 is that he made it about what he did 2283 01:52:56,920 --> 01:52:59,800 rather than about who he was, he kept himself away 2284 01:52:59,880 --> 01:53:02,640 from the limelight basically, as an individual, 2285 01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:06,440 but publicised everything that he was involved in that he did. 2286 01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:11,400 He was probably one of the last great analogue influencers. 2287 01:53:11,480 --> 01:53:14,520 There's a great organisational intelligence at work 2288 01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,280 because he basically changed football hooliganism 2289 01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:19,320 and the way it was organised. 2290 01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:21,760 He was certainly one of the main guys that did that. 2291 01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:24,480 But he also took these kind of skills, 2292 01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:28,160 these organisational skills, into setting up the radio station 2293 01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:29,840 into organising raves. 2294 01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:34,480 And it always seemed to me that 2295 01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:36,840 he was more than about football. 2296 01:53:37,080 --> 01:53:40,040 One of the things that I really love in working class people 2297 01:53:40,120 --> 01:53:41,480 is a sense of entitlement. 2298 01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:43,560 Anybody that's working class, 2299 01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:45,800 you've got to have a massive sense of entitlement. 2300 01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:49,000 If you've not got that, you're going to be shat on. 2301 01:53:49,240 --> 01:53:51,360 For people like Andy, it was never an option 2302 01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:53,480 not to have that sense of entitlement. 2303 01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:55,200 And I think it's important. 2304 01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:57,720 I think it's absolutely crucial that you have, 2305 01:53:57,800 --> 01:53:59,040 if you're working class, 2306 01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:01,760 you have the biggest sense of entitlement possible. 2307 01:54:01,880 --> 01:54:04,400 Well, Andy was like us. 2308 01:54:04,480 --> 01:54:07,800 He would stay with you, he would be your friend 2309 01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:09,920 and he would be loyal and he would help you 2310 01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:11,280 if you was in trouble. 2311 01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:14,160 We have always been underdogs in every way 2312 01:54:14,240 --> 01:54:17,520 as West Ham supporters, West Ham as a club, 2313 01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:20,280 and us as kids, we was always underdogs. 2314 01:54:20,360 --> 01:54:24,440 We was the forgotten class, and still are in many respects 2315 01:54:24,520 --> 01:54:26,320 and we wanted our day in the sun. 2316 01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:29,760 And Andy's gone on to do what he's done with Centreforce 2317 01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:32,440 and built this wonderful thing out of nothing. 2318 01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:34,080 I don't think for two old East End Boys, 2319 01:54:34,160 --> 01:54:35,320 we've done bad between us. 2320 01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:37,440 He's old school, he's old school East End, ain't he? 2321 01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:39,920 So he's got them morals, them old school morals 2322 01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:43,680 so he'd always help people out. 2323 01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:46,760 He's got to somewhere in his life and he's helping people up. 2324 01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:47,920 If it wasn't for him, 2325 01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:49,840 then I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. 2326 01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:51,240 And he does that throughout his life 2327 01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:53,560 I've seen him take people under his wing 2328 01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,360 and give them an opportunity to do something 2329 01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:58,120 with their life or make something of themselves. 2330 01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:02,160 He's got a reputation because of the football, basically. 2331 01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,840 As I said, if you work for someone for that long, 2332 01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:07,320 you're going to have rows, you know what I mean? 2333 01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:10,720 But he's alright. I call him 'The old man.' 2334 01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:16,240 He's such a kind person, he's so caring 2335 01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:18,160 and anybody that really knows him 2336 01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:20,280 and anybody that is friends with him 2337 01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:22,240 and is lucky enough to call him a friend, 2338 01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:24,840 I think they'll tell you as much as I do, 2339 01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:29,440 he's not this big scary monster, deep down he's a big softie, 2340 01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:33,040 but he's a product of his environment ultimately. 2341 01:55:33,160 --> 01:55:35,520 And now I really see 2342 01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:37,320 he actually ain't a product of his environment. 2343 01:55:37,400 --> 01:55:39,120 His environment's now a product of him 2344 01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:42,160 because he has set the mould and he's set the way of life, 2345 01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:44,840 I think for anybody from that background 2346 01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,400 because he ain't ever let it hold him back. 2347 01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:50,560 And I think his personality and the fight and desire 2348 01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:52,920 that he really has is unmatchable. 2349 01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:56,200 This is everybody's story, this is my story, 2350 01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:59,240 this is Danny's story, this will be Beau's story 2351 01:55:59,480 --> 01:56:01,520 Danny's boy too. 2352 01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:05,360 But to do the music, the DJing 2353 01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:07,920 and then to pass that down to Beau, 2354 01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,080 which is the next generation, that's massively important. 2355 01:56:11,160 --> 01:56:12,680 And for Amelia as well. 2356 01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:15,080 I know she laughs, Amelia, at 12, 2357 01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:17,960 but she has a little look at the music that we do, 2358 01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:20,480 and in her little sense, she's always up there with me. 2359 01:56:20,560 --> 01:56:24,120 She said to me yesterday, I'm having my birthday party 2360 01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:26,960 but I'm not having your old music, Dan. 2361 01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:28,680 I'm having some new stuff. 2362 01:56:28,760 --> 01:56:31,880 And I was like, 'I play new music, Amelia. That's what I do.' 2363 01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:34,600 It is for the generations, it's for Danny, 2364 01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:36,120 it's for Beau and it is for Amelia. 2365 01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:37,800 And I think that's the thing as well. 2366 01:56:37,880 --> 01:56:39,240 It is a family thing. 2367 01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:42,160 It's a family business and I want to pass it down to my boy 2368 01:56:42,240 --> 01:56:44,360 and I hope that he passes it down to his, 2369 01:56:44,440 --> 01:56:47,560 if we can keep it going for another 40, 50, 60 years 2370 01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:50,240 then Centreforce really did stand the test of time. 2371 01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:51,920 Yeah. Especially if I'm still DJing. 2372 01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:55,720 I'll tell you what, mate, stranger things have happened. 2373 01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:57,160 Watch this space! 2374 01:56:58,720 --> 01:56:59,880 You never know.